Converting A Mono To A Twin

[woody]

"Then again, Trials is about the rider's ability rather than the machinery to a large degree, so I can also

understand allowing leeway in the types of bikes."

That's one of the most frequently quoted inaccuracies on this forum

Take two riders, capable of performing a few tricks, one on a 1968 Sherpa, the other on a Yam mono converted to twinshock

Now take one of our national championship twinshock rounds which have some quite difficult sections. In some of those sections a clean can be achieved by using clutch/brake technique and flicking the front and rear wheels to get a better line (including stopping and flicking which is against the rules but usually goes unpenalised ) Without the flicking to get the better line, a ride through the section is going to need a dab or two to pull the bike straight as it is impossible to steer round the muddy turns without the front wheel washing or the rear sliding away.

So out of the two riders, who is going to fair better in that section, the rider on the Yam or the rider on the old Bulto which doesn't have the clutch/suspension/brakes/geometry to perform the tricks. If both riders were on the Bulto the better rider would do it for a dab instead of a 2 or a 3. If both were on the Yam, they'd both clean it with the stop/hop style.

Add in a big muddy climb after one of the turns and the Yam can do the section in 3rd or 4th gear and burn up the climb as you can still perform the stop/hop in those gears. The Sherpa could use 2nd at most which wouldn't be enough to get you up the climb as it wouldn't fire off the clutch in any higher gears. So after three-ing your way around the turns on the Sherpa you then 5 the climb whilst the Yam goes clean.

Still think the bike offers no advantage?

I think there is nothing wrong with people modifying bikes how they want including adding 2 shocks to a mono if that's what they want to do - but to then ride it as a twinshock is absurd and missing the point of why people ride older bikes. I've never understood the thinking behind 'I want to do twinshock trials' or 'I want to ride aircooled mono class'. Surely it is 'I like Bultacos (or Ossas, or Stripey Betas for argument's sake) so I want to own and ride one'. You then ride the bike in any event that has a course/route/sections that you think you can compete on with that bike. They may be twinshock speciific trials or modern events with a route that suits the bike - whichever, you get to ride the bike of your choice.

It is about wanting to ride a bike you enjoy riding, in the case of twinshocks or aircooled monos, usually the make of bike that you rode when they were new because you really liked it.

People are too hung up on this 'there is no class for my bike so I can't ride it' attitude. Rubbish - you just go and ride it and enjoy it. Doesn't bother me if I am the only twinshock out of 80 riders at one of our modern events.

[bilc0]

Hows it said..."Everyone can afford to buy a Jaguar but not everyone can afford to keep it on the road"

Parts for some of the Twinshocks are getting very expensive in the UK.

I bought a rear brake pedal in perfect condition for the 200 off an italian fantic man for just 10 Euros,Now here in the UK you could expect to pay

Edited March 8, 2010 by bilc0

[old trials fanatic]

Hows it said..."Everyone can afford to buy a Jaguar but not everyone can afford to keep it on the road"

Parts for some of the Twinshocks are getting very expensive in the UK.

I bought a rear brake pedal in perfect condition for the 200 off an italian fantic man for just 10 Euros,Now here in the UK you could expect to pay

[bilc0]

No Paul,at the time i was looking none of the known Fantic peeps here had one,but they did inform me that if i do find one it would cost alot,i was going to bodge something up,even that costs if you consider the time you put into bodging something.It just happened a week later i was in Spain for Cabrianes and there was a big artic from Italy there full of TS Fantic stuff,Evan Lee Harris would of creamed he's pants if he saw what this Ital had on the back of he's wagon,anyway i was so high on the fact that this lever cost me just 10 Euros i forgot to get he's contact details.

There comes a time when you invest so much money and time into a TS it comes to a point you just would'nt get your money back if you tried to sell,i guess this is how so many find there ways to the back of the garage.

I would urge the Dealers of TS spares to keep your prices realistic to keep the TS movement real.

Edited March 8, 2010 by bilc0

[twinshocked]

That's one of the most frequently quoted inaccuracies on this forum

Take two riders, capable of performing a few tricks, one on a 1968 Sherpa, the other on a Yam mono converted to twinshock

Now take one of our national championship twinshock rounds which have some quite difficult sections. In some of those sections a clean can be achieved by using clutch/brake technique and flicking the front and rear wheels to get a better line (including stopping and flicking which is against the rules but usually goes unpenalised ) Without the flicking to get the better line, a ride through the section is going to need a dab or two to pull the bike straight as it is impossible to steer round the muddy turns without the front wheel washing or the rear sliding away.

So out of the two riders, who is going to fair better in that section, the rider on the Yam or the rider on the old Bulto which doesn't have the clutch/suspension/brakes/geometry to perform the tricks. If both riders were on the Bulto the better rider would do it for a dab instead of a 2 or a 3. If both were on the Yam, they'd both clean it with the stop/hop style.

Add in a big muddy climb after one of the turns and the Yam can do the section in 3rd or 4th gear and burn up the climb as you can still perform the stop/hop in those gears. The Sherpa could use 2nd at most which wouldn't be enough to get you up the climb as it wouldn't fire off the clutch in any higher gears. So after three-ing your way around the turns on the Sherpa you then 5 the climb whilst the Yam goes clean.

Still think the bike offers no advantage?

I think there is nothing wrong with people modifying bikes how they want including adding 2 shocks to a mono if that's what they want to do - but to then ride it as a twinshock is absurd and missing the point of why people ride older bikes. I've never understood the thinking behind 'I want to do twinshock trials' or 'I want to ride aircooled mono class'. Surely it is 'I like Bultacos (or Ossas, or Stripey Betas for argument's sake) so I want to own and ride one'. You then ride the bike in any event that has a course/route/sections that you think you can compete on with that bike. They may be twinshock speciific trials or modern events with a route that suits the bike - whichever, you get to ride the bike of your choice.

It is about wanting to ride a bike you enjoy riding, in the case of twinshocks or aircooled monos, usually the make of bike that you rode when they were new because you really liked it.

People are too hung up on this 'there is no class for my bike so I can't ride it' attitude. Rubbish - you just go and ride it and enjoy it. Doesn't bother me if I am the only twinshock out of 80 riders at one of our modern events.

Woody makes some very good points here.

If you don't think equipment makes a difference they why put modern on tires? Ride them old hard nasty ones.

It is your bike, obviously you are free to do what you want with it. If you want to cut up a perfectly good 2004 Montesa and put a snowmobile engine in it, that is your right, just don't call it a twinshock or expect to ride in the same class as a TS. Our ITSA Series has a class for homemade Specials, that is where these "mongrels" belongs. Most of our local clubs over here have very few rules regarding TS.

Edited March 8, 2010 by twinshocked

[marky g]

As for all this "twinshocks are too expensive. Out of reach of the average working man" blah blah blah. A perfectly good twinshock, a real one btw, can be bought off flea bay and made useable for well under

[old trials fanatic]

I'll get me coat on the way out.

i was talking in general and didnt mean to offend but i do keep hearing a lot of fantasy about the magical contents of some peoples engines and when i've seen them on the bench it honestly just isnt true. I dont know if fantasising about the engines the top lads use makes it easier to take for some but the motors, Mick Grants and Neil Gaunts excepted but still nothing an engineer couldnt do for you, arent really that special. As i said before it's the frames, suspension and of course the rider. You have to just look at the pedigree of some of the top guys in Pre65. They may be 20 or 30 years further down the line but go out riding with one sometime and you will see you cant forget how to turn it on.

As examples Mick Andrews and Dave Thorpe. Mick rides almost one handed now due to injury and Dave Thorpe struggles top walk a section but get them on the bike and it's magic.

Again please dont take offence none was meant just a bit fed up of hearing about special motors with trick internals when it aint so.

[b40rt]

Woody makes some very good points here.

If you don't think equipment makes a difference they why put modern on tires? Ride them old hard nasty ones.

It is your bike, obviously you are free to do what you want with it. If you want to cut up a perfectly good 2004 Montesa and put a snowmobile engine in it, that is your right, just don't call it a twinshock or expect to ride in the same class as a TS. Our ITSA Series has a class for homemade Specials, that is where these "mongrels" belongs. Most of our local clubs over here have very few rules regarding TS.

The knock on effect of modifying/re-engineering bikes is the severity of sections has to be racked up to take marks.

To the extent that genuine twin shocks / pre-65 are at a disadvantage.

Defeats the purpose in my estimation.

[neil king]

and your point is?

I like to work both sides of the debate.

[neil king]

When shock angle, stearing angle, footpeg placement, forks and wheels replaced and engine modified, The Bike is No Longer True To It's Begining period!

[neil king]

My wanting to convert the mono ino a twin shock is not so I can have an advantage, but so I could compete in a class within the confines of the rules. FOR FUN!

[neil king]

Ya'll been putting chocolate on your peanutbutter all along, but choose to call it something else.

[wayne_weedon]

When shock angle, stearing angle, footpeg placement, forks and wheels replaced and engine modified, The Bike is No Longer True To It's Begining period!

Was all done within their period though, albeit not by a majority.

On the other hand don't ever recall anyone converting a Mono to twinshock back then though. Though there were no doubt a few TS bikes convered to crude Mono.

Wayne....

[twinshocked]

When shock angle, stearing angle, footpeg placement, forks and wheels replaced and engine modified, The Bike is No Longer True To It's Begining period!

Those things make a TS better. Whats weird is that you want to make the TY worse,...........but like I said its your bike and its a free country.

Edited March 10, 2010 by twinshocked

[kramit]

I read just about every post and I feel like throwing my computer out the window!!!!!!!!