No stop

[betarick]

How many times as everybody been stuck in a section que waiting to ride it while someone hops around in the section and takes ages! I for one often think to myself while waiting wish it was no stop! Even though i have never really rode non stop rules!

[nigel dabster]

I didn't say anything about ex riders, surely we're trying to encourage new riders to the sport?

I think a few clubs claim to lay trials out in the no stop style so why not just observe it no stop aswel?

A good example of why no stop is better for the masses is the Wallace cup which is not a million miles from you dabster. When it's no stop the sections are much better than when it's hopping rules, people haven't paid their hard earned money to sit in a queue and most people will go home happy. When these types of trials run hopping rules it's just a farce and I seem to remember you posting something similar yourself! Which rules do you want dabster? It would be interesting to hear!

I didnt say anything about ex riders either but can understand you thought my first sentance inferred that. I meant riders who would come into the sport.

I think that as the riders get into the sport they really struggle, and I'm sure it was rapley that said marking no stop at the bottom level means fives for a moments hesitation and can ruin a newbys day.

My opionion is to impose one set of rules is draconian as there is (clearly) two camps, two sets of people that prefer strongly one set or the other.

Me I dont mind, maybe its an age thing but I just love riding my bike, especially in the Richmond events looking down the dales on a sunny day and off down the becks is almost as good as sex. Then again my memories of the 4 days in France a few years back are among my happiest rides too, and thats stop allowed. For me its the events thats the important thing.

Stop allowed at club and other levels where experts take too long is a big downside but not that difficult to cure.

The wallace is a good point but specifically that trial has changed its section layout as well, not just the stop/no stop aspect. Besides the land is not as suitable as many others for a national trial and having helped stuart set that particular trial out I can assure you its the best of a bad job in places, and much easier to take marks with stop allowed. However again the queue thing is solvable.

Edited November 25, 2011 by Nigel Dabster

[gizza5]

The jobs knackered so lets leave it as it is?

Or do we change and see if it works?

We can all come on here and say what we as a rider want, but the fact remains that from the WTC to the BTC and down to some Centre and club trials entries are poor, where there has been growth is the No Stop trials SSDT, S3 and some good nationals with the general census being how much more they enjoy it.

Now whether that be the right move or wrong something has to be done because if you were running a failing business then you would try a move that would possibly help!

I do beleive that No Stop will encourage peolpe into our sport because its simple you put it in gear and ride between the flags, the arguement against that is that when you become a better rider then you will be able to hop and skip but you can make the sections hard enough to take marks.

It would be interesting to hear what the importers want I know of one that definately wants to go no stop, is this because he is grey and old or does he think he will sell bikes and move the sport forward.

As for the pro's whether that be at WTC or BTC we as riders only dream to ride with their skills, but its not what 99% of us can do? Let the FIM screw it up but let us in the UK try to and sort the mess out.

One rule so that organisers, observers and riders know what they are doing when they bunk up every Sunday morning!

[smalley250]

No stop is old and out dated. Modern machines now lend them self to hopping, hence the requirement to implement this into sections. Simply putting a turn into a no stop that demands a footing is proof it's flawed.

Land is becoming more of an issue and venues often not that good so it's a case of making tight turns just to make It difficult. Twin shock should be no stop permitted, but to go back in time defeats progress of the sport.

[chewy]

How many times as everybody been stuck in a section que waiting to ride it while someone hops around in the section and takes ages! I for one often think to myself while waiting wish it was no stop! Even though i have never really rode non stop rules!

Just to agree with this just do simple arithmatic. eg. 10 riders stopping/hopping take average of 2 mins each to ride a section, X 10 sections X 4 laps= 800 minutes.

even 5 riders X1 minute X10 sections X4 laps =200 minutes.

all that without walking /looking waiting for somebody to go first, discussing tyre pressures or something equally wan*er**sh with minder and of course disputing the score aftewards.

This just cannot be regarded as progress for our sport

Nigel Dabster has the right attitude

Me I dont mind, maybe its an age thing but I just love riding my bike, especially in the Richmond events looking down the dales on a sunny day and off down the becks is almost as good as sex. Then again my memories of the 4 days in France a few years back are among my happiest rides too, and thats stop allowed. For me its the events thats the important thing."

"

I said it recently in another forum . If the manufacturers ,importers, dealers want to sell more product the sales budget would be better spent working towards better land availabilty, simple rules, sensibly priced bikes for sensible sections in sensible championships.

Edited November 25, 2011 by chewy

[phb]

We will see wont we!

I don't honestly see the problem you have with no stop, maybe it's down to that your lad isn't as good at no stop. Who knows! I wonder if Bradford will follow the trend.

we had our monthly meeting last night and was told about the events at Y&G'S AGM and after a extremely quick discussion, it was agreed that, WE WILL NOT BE CHANGING from TSR22A at this present time, whats more we have not been asked by any of our club members for the rules change

What will be more interesting is how the overall membership of Y&G feel about this rule change and how some people are saying it appears to have been included in a hush hush manner at the AGM.

The biggest issue I can forsee is that different clubs within the centre will be running trials on different rules and this will make it even harder to find willing observers to man the sections

Edited November 25, 2011 by PHB

[bilc0]

discussing tyre pressures or something equally wan*er**sh with minder

What you mean like who forgot to put the cat out.

[straycollie2]

From reading this discussion I feel that often the main problem is not with the stopping, but with the hopping. It's the hopping when stationary to reposition wheels for the optimum line that takes up time, slows the flow of riders through a section and allows the expert riders to clean ever more difficult sections.

As a (less than) average standard rider, I may take a momentary feet-up pause to regain balance, prepare for the next obstacle etc. I would feel aggrieved if this resulted in a five. Judging when a rider is 'stopped' is subjective and often varies between observers.

So in and ideal world, I'd like to keep the stopping, but get rid of the stationary hopping. But, anyone who really believes that a change in rules is suddenly going to bring in a huge influx of new riders is living in La-La Land!

[rogerroger]

From reading this discussion I feel that often the main problem is not with the stopping, but with the hopping. It's the hopping when stationary to reposition wheels for the optimum line that takes up time, slows the flow of riders through a section and allows the expert riders to clean ever more difficult sections.

As a (less than) average standard rider, I may take a momentary feet-up pause to regain balance, prepare for the next obstacle etc. I would feel aggrieved if this resulted in a five. Judging when a rider is 'stopped' is subjective and often varies between observers.

So in and ideal world, I'd like to keep the stopping, but get rid of the stationary hopping. But, anyone who really believes that a change in rules is suddenly going to bring in a huge influx of new riders is living in La-La Land!

I agree completely - being able to re-align the bike means the line through the section is no longer important, only the line through the next obstacle needs to be considered. One skill replaces another!

The land argument (against no-stop) is spurious - no stop is harder to ride, so requires easier sections, reducing the need for large obstacles and giving the setter more weapons for taking marks.

[pete_scorpa3]

I agree completely - being able to re-align the bike means the line through the section is no longer important, only the line through the next obstacle needs to be considered. One skill replaces another!

The land argument (against no-stop) is spurious - no stop is harder to ride, so requires easier sections, reducing the need for large obstacles and giving the setter more weapons for taking marks.

Almost the same Colmore section but three years apart.

2008 was stopping allowed, 2011 was non stop.

You will see a few points in these videos that have been discussed in this thread.

Pete

[telecat]

I agree completely - being able to re-align the bike means the line through the section is no longer important, only the line through the next obstacle needs to be considered. One skill replaces another!

The land argument (against no-stop) is spurious - no stop is harder to ride, so requires easier sections, reducing the need for large obstacles and giving the setter more weapons for taking marks.

No-Stop is not "harder" to ride unless you put in sections that cannot be ridden No-Stop. In which case what's the point?

I have to also say that the only Trials I have been to where We have finished in the dark are No-Stop. Even then it's usually down to a group messing around chatting between sections. All the Trials We attend take at most 4 Hours or 240 mins to finish whatever rules are being used and usually with about 30-100 riders. Sort of makes the time arguments FOR No-Stop spurious and looking a bit... well silly. As for losing "large" obstacles how does that mean C of C's have MORE Weapons in order to take marks. It limits them. You have to look for obstacles with run ups or that allow a "flow". That needs a bigger space. How is that helping clubs with limited land?

Edited November 25, 2011 by Telecat

[ishy]

Two The Pro's include the Spanish and they are not going to allow the rules at that level to change.

In today's economy anyone who puts the cost before the earnings ain't going to last long enough to make change.

Amount of new bikes, versus new punters, you can shuffle the numbers all you want it doesn't add up.

[gizza5]

Think we will all have the answer shortly

[tricky dicky]

Just seen an article on another website which I won't put a link on for. I'm sure it will soon be front page news though!

[telecat]

In today's economy anyone who puts the cost before the earnings ain't going to last long enough to make change.

Amount of new bikes, versus new punters, you can shuffle the numbers all you want it doesn't add up.

In Spain they have the Punters, they have TV coverage etc. There it works why should they change? Why wouldn't they resist the FIM trying to change the rules? Especially as it's only the ACU trying to do it?

In the UK the problem is a lack of a rider capable of winning WTC. There was a BIG gap between Dougie, Graham, and Steve Colley to the current lads. It could be said that nobody was going to come though while these boys dominated the sport in the UK. But it has hurt the Sport here as Doug and Graham have moved to Enduro's and Steve just does shows. Could that be blamed on No Stop? There's an argument it could be.

That lack of a really high profile rider with no disrespect to Dibs, Jack etc is probably what's hurting UK Trials at the moment. There is nobody who can get on TV barring Dougie because as far as the TV exec's are concerned they don't have the credibility. They are starting to bridge the gap and with Browny, Wigg and Shepard a new dynasty could emerge as Spain's Golden generation Wane. Just Behind them are lads like Jack Price and Joe Faunthorpe brought up on Stop Trials at National level. If we change to No Stop we risk another big gap in WTC capable riders by going back to rules designed for twin shocks and drum brakes. Yes it gets the enthusiast interested but not the "Punters" who want to watch.

However look at Bicycle Trials, Danny Macaskill is feted on TV due to how he can throw a Trials Bicycle around. He could be on a Trials Motorcycle. However would he be interested in No-Stop? Pretty unlikely even if the Money was there and lets face it He doesn't need to move now. Many of his contemporaries don't want to move either. In Spain a lot do and we have missed out on them. No-Stop certainly discourages them because that's what they do! And they are growing in number.

We've seen Jack start to do the sort of Video Danny does to get the sport moving. That excites Punters. We do have riders coming in. Those who find road and MX/Enduros just too damaging. Youngsters on the OSET's. That's the future and we can cater for all. Set Beginners and Club course out so they can be ridden No-Stop. The Main and Championship courses as Stop and you make everybody happy and you get a progression for the riders who want and need it.