Jump to content


Photo

Ossa TR 280i hard to start


  • Please log in to reply
349 replies to this topic

#241 steveo

steveo

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 739 posts
  • Location:Australia
  • Bike:2013 OSSA TR280I.

Posted 31 May 2012 - 11:14 AM

Best Trials bike I've ever owned has just got better......apparently !!!!!! :hyper:


Ads By Google User is online

Ads By Google
  • Ad Bots


Don't want these Ads? Why not help support TC and sign up as a Trials Central Supporter?

#242 deonattard

deonattard

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 135 posts
  • Location:Australia
  • Bike:Ossa TR280i
  • Club:Central QLD

Posted 31 May 2012 - 12:53 PM

Ok - a picture is worth 1000 words, so here is 2000 words :-)

Read the description on each photo to help you understand. Make this at your own risk, if you blow your bike up, burn yourself with the soildering iron, or short out your ECU or other electronics I am not responsible.

I have installed this same solution on my own bike and so far, fantastic.

Use a multimeter to check the voltage output on your pack (it should read a little over 12v like 12.6v or something like that), and to check your switch is working before connecting it to your bike. If you don't have enough electronics knowledge to do the checks then you probably need the assistance of someone more experienced before thinking about connecting to your bike.

To operate, turn your switch to the on position. If your bike has lights they will turn on, you'll hear the fuel pump prime for several seconds and you are ready to start the bike. Leave the switch on while the bike is in operation. After you turn the bike off, turn your switch to the off position to power down the electronics and to avoid running your batteries flat.

If your bike does not have lights, you should consider connecting a LED into the system to indicate power so you can't forget the switch on.

http://www.trialscen...ssa-easy-start/

factory prototype battery and switch for Ossa TR280i
Album: Ossa Easy Start
2 images
0 comments


Edited by DeonAttard, 31 May 2012 - 02:19 PM.


#243 borus

borus

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 403 posts
  • Location:ontario, canada
  • Bike:Sherco

Posted 31 May 2012 - 01:05 PM

Hi Deon
This thread has been fascinating, and you seem to be getting results now, so that's great news!
It is indeed odd that Ossa are taking so long to produce this incredible solution, especially considering its apparent simplicity of design. I have a feeling though, that any non-Ossa approved systems installed on a bike will invalidate all warranty, and so I would suggest people think carefully before they tell their own stories here about the kit they install. Having said that, I look forward to your shopping list with interest, as I have 'a friend' who is keen to make one of their own!
Cheers, Toby


Hi Toby, the LSS is just hitting the market now but has been in place on the FactoryR and Explorer prototype for some time. I believe the current prototype version you are seeing right now will be refined to a neat package. Any changes to the Ossa are rigorously tested, once approved then they move onto production which then quality control is crucial. Considering the LSS you must have a map that is programed for that system. Map 13 right now is programed for the system. Just imagine the thread on here, (my home made LSS won"t work, what's up???) only if they knew that they are not mapped for it.

As to making up your own system, you may want to talk with your dealer, something for everyone to consider, the ECU and all electrical components are energized when the LSS is turned on, I'm fairly confident that if you fry your ECU etc with a non Ossa battery it's not going to be covered under warranty. Further to that if a customer showed up with their own battery pack installed and the bike not running right the first order of business would be to remove their pack and reinstall the capacitor or Ossa LSS to get the bike back to standard set up.

Finally, I have no idea yet what the cost of the LSS (I'm not expecting it to be too much) is but why would anyone want to mess around with their ECU? It's the brain of your Ossa, take care when getting too adventurous. There is no doubt that we all like to tinker but the 2T ECU / EFI system is not where you want to get silly.

Just to add, Ossa invites the importers and their dealers to the factory for conferences. The last one we were at was in March where we tested the LSS bikes, Explorer, different maps and standard non LSS set ups. The feedback to Ossa was very interesting and varied, the most important note is that Ossa was not rushing the LSS out there for a quick fix and wanted feedback on the LSS and other bikes and features. What can be learned at the Ossa conferences by all participating is endless. I also see that Ossa invites customers to visit the factory also. Their perspective and feedback is so important. hope this information helps. cheers

Edited by borus, 31 May 2012 - 02:06 PM.


#244 jsp

jsp

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 473 posts
  • Location:West Yorks
  • Bike:2013 OSSA T300i
  • Club:West of leeds, Horsforth, Spen Valley

Posted 31 May 2012 - 02:47 PM

the uk factory bikes havent come with LSS fitted

jsp

#245 jhadams

jhadams

    New Member

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 6 posts
  • Location:The Netherlands
  • Bike:Ossa TR280i 2012
  • Club:MCRR

Posted 31 May 2012 - 08:04 PM

I am thinking that maybe the batteries over-charge and fail as a result, there is no protection circuit for the batteries. There has to be some reason why Ossa has not released this product because so far it works almost too good to be true!

I have a friend who is auto electrician, next time he is around I will get him to take a look at the system to see if any protection maybe required to prevent over-charging the batteries.

I have set my unit up so I can easily swap back to the capacitor if required and I will build some spare battery packs for my own personal usage.

I read the post above with the guy who has tapped into the light connector, that also seems like a good idea however I do not know if there is any benefit to retain the capacitor.

I also don't understand why everything about this very basic battery pack is a huge secret.

Allow me a few days to catch up on my work and I will post some directions on how to make and connect the battery with parts from the electronic store.


Deon,

When using the batterypack just for starting, and disconnect it when riding, the capacitor is needed for proper functioning of the fan.
Without capacitor the fan will not run at full speed.
Good idea to mount a led for switch position.

NEVER HAD A BETTER STARTING BIKE !

Edited by jhadams, 31 May 2012 - 08:05 PM.

jha

#246 deonattard

deonattard

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 135 posts
  • Location:Australia
  • Bike:Ossa TR280i
  • Club:Central QLD

Posted 01 June 2012 - 01:43 AM

Deon,

When using the batterypack just for starting, and disconnect it when riding, the capacitor is needed for proper functioning of the fan.
Without capacitor the fan will not run at full speed.
Good idea to mount a led for switch position.

NEVER HAD A BETTER STARTING BIKE !


Have you tested this yourself to confirm the fan issue?

I havn't run the bike long enough with battery pack for the fan to start but I will test on the weekend. This is the same setup the factory are using so I am not expecting any fan issue but I will know soon.

I am happy to run both capacitor and battery pack if required but some thought will be required to find a suitable mounting position.

Do you know what they call the head light connector plug or did you cut the plug from the head-light to re-use?

#247 deonattard

deonattard

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 135 posts
  • Location:Australia
  • Bike:Ossa TR280i
  • Club:Central QLD

Posted 01 June 2012 - 06:12 AM

Another option to take the battery out of the circuit would be a 2-way switch. Position 1 - battery, start up the bike, after warm up flick switch to Position 2 which takes the battery out of the circuit and flicks back to capacitor.

The only reason to retain the capacitor would be if there is some problem with the battery. So far, no-one has reported any issue with the battery but the few people who have the battery pack to date, most of them are very hush, hush with their knowledge so I don't know if I will discover a problem with running battery only as time goes on.

#248 micm

micm

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 231 posts
  • Location:Hampshire
  • Bike:300 Gas Gas
  • Club:Alton & Bognor

Posted 01 June 2012 - 09:45 AM

Our fan works normally with the battery and no capacitor. It comes on and goes off like any other modern bike and spins at what seems like a normal speed judging by the noise it makes. The batteries have been our bike for 3 months without any problem. Perhaps if you left the bike untouched for a long time you would need to recharge them but a suitable charger costs around £2 (UK) and I am told wiring in a plug etc would not be too difficult.

Our pack which looks even more basic than the photoed one was sent from Spain and the information with it, though adequate, was minimal. I got a friend who is a trials mechanic to fit it and then it was checked by an electronics engineer who said by the way the bike wiring was 'very simple.'

We were not told anything else at all but, 'here is a battery pack put it on your bike and it will solve the problem.' It did.

If anyone wants details of the 'battery' bike call Ian at Jam Sport on 01252 718606 it is available to buy.

#249 lankydoug

lankydoug

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 33 posts
  • Location:Central MO USA and CO USA in the summer
  • Bike:97 Beta Techno

Posted 01 June 2012 - 03:09 PM

The capacitor and a rechargeable battery pack have the same affect on the circuit and both are not needed at the same time but it must be one or the other. There is an old trick used in the case where the owner is too poor or cheap to buy a battery and doesn't mind losing the electric start. He can get a bike running with a dead battery by removing the battery and replacing it with the correct value capacitor. If you remove both the capacitor and the rechargeable battery you're going to have problems. In Ossa's case replacing the capacitor with the battery pack adds a maintenance item but provides easier starting.

#250 nigel dabster

nigel dabster

    Advanced Member

  • Site Supporter
  • 8,034 posts
  • Location:Miton Keynes
  • Bike:Gas Gas Bultaco 340
  • Club:Milton Buzzard MCC,Richmond MC

Posted 01 June 2012 - 07:09 PM

why does the capacitor work, but not very well?


Ads By Google User is online

Ads By Google
  • Ad Bots


Don't want these Ads? Why not help support TC and sign up as a Trials Central Supporter?

#251 markjw

markjw

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 36 posts
  • Location:Canberra
  • Bike:OSSA 280 2012
  • Club:Trials Club of Canberra

Posted 01 June 2012 - 09:22 PM

why does the capacitor work, but not very well?

Good question - a good capacitor with a small unit to supply a new charge should suffuce or are they only good for 1 time or just to smooth out a voltage flow - this may help understand why the OSSAs were like they were with starting

#252 nigel dabster

nigel dabster

    Advanced Member

  • Site Supporter
  • 8,034 posts
  • Location:Miton Keynes
  • Bike:Gas Gas Bultaco 340
  • Club:Milton Buzzard MCC,Richmond MC

Posted 02 June 2012 - 05:32 AM

What I'm thinking is that a capacitor to jump to batteries seems a big leap,although clearly working, so is there a halfway where enough charge would give good results say second kick?

#253 baldilocks

baldilocks

    Advanced Member

  • Site Supporter
  • 1,922 posts
  • Location:Social Central
  • Bike:Gas Gas SWM
  • Club:BEDLINGTON

Posted 02 June 2012 - 07:58 AM

does the ossa require a minimum rpm like the 4rt ? I have always thought this is a problem with the mont as it ticks over too fast to recover traction when you shut the throttle. Does the battery get round this ?

#254 jhadams

jhadams

    New Member

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 6 posts
  • Location:The Netherlands
  • Bike:Ossa TR280i 2012
  • Club:MCRR

Posted 02 June 2012 - 09:43 AM

Have you tested this yourself to confirm the fan issue?

I havn't run the bike long enough with battery pack for the fan to start but I will test on the weekend. This is the same setup the factory are using so I am not expecting any fan issue but I will know soon.

I am happy to run both capacitor and battery pack if required but some thought will be required to find a suitable mounting position.

Do you know what they call the head light connector plug or did you cut the plug from the head-light to re-use?

My dealer came with this information.
I understood from him that without capacitor and battery the fan will not run at full speed.
So you need a capacitor or battery connected when the engine is running.
I am using the battery just for starting and disconnect it when the engine run (to prevent overloading)
so I kept the capcitor in place.

I connected the battery pack on connector (14) of the "esquemas electricos" and removed the front/rear light.
Mounted the batterypack on the steering mounts (picture first post).

Edited by jhadams, 02 June 2012 - 09:44 AM.

jha

#255 deonattard

deonattard

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 135 posts
  • Location:Australia
  • Bike:Ossa TR280i
  • Club:Central QLD

Posted 02 June 2012 - 12:41 PM

Good question - a good capacitor with a small unit to supply a new charge should suffuce or are they only good for 1 time or just to smooth out a voltage flow - this may help understand why the OSSAs were like they were with starting


The capacitor just smoothes out the power, it does not build up a charge like some people think. When you kick the bike, the capacitor is fully discharged in a matter of seconds.

I'm not going to try it but I am quite sure the bike will run without the capacitor however the power supply maybe irregular so the bike might not run too well and maybe there is some risk to the electronics.

When you are doing your initial kicks, essentially you are priming up the fuel pump which depending on how long the bike has been sitting for can take between 2-6 seconds to prime up and turn off. It seems that the priming of the fuel pump is the only reason why these bikes can take so many kicks to start.

Soon as you have fuel pressure, bang, bike starts.

I wish the rain would stop here so I can have a ride, hopefully tommorow, its going to be muddy.

Edited by DeonAttard, 02 June 2012 - 12:45 PM.





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users