dan williams

I had one of those badged as a CanAm. I put a front end off a Beta TR33 on it for the disk.

After looking through a bunch of manuals (see factory clutch thread) I confirmed the 4 strokes use six of the thicker 3mm plates. So you four stroke guys can probably use the Barnett clutch plates mentioned earlier.

Ah, tracked down interesting data in the parts manual. In 2014 the factory two stroke had two different steel plates. I assume that's what these are. In 2014 there is a new clutch hub number for the 2t bikes except the 125 which still uses the old hub. The pressure plate and basket for the standard 2t has stayed the same for at least a decade. The newer 4 strokes use all six of the thick fiber plates. Where you see the two fiber numbers is where the 4 thin, 2 thick plates are used. Just a guess but the new hub might be slightly deeper to aid the engagement of the steel plate at the top of the stack.

Whoa! I just opened the pics. I've never seen those steels before.

Maintenance? Meh, change the oil when you're bored. Fix what's broken or sticky. Clean the air filter every couple of rides. I'll do a set of rings if I hold onto a bike for more than three years. Disassemble and clean the carb twice a year. That's about it.

Here in New England equestrians were the biggest enemy of off road vehicles on public land to the point where Massachusetts where I live only has three forests open on limited trails now. The other forests are ringed with commercial stables and private horse owners. I knew when I started reading this horses would come into it eventually.

I've seen three "factory" clutches fail badly. Always the gear behind the basket. I've seen none of the standard gear basket combinations fail. It may be the factory clutches are used mostly by the top guys who beat their clutches much harder or there is less effective shock damping in the factory clutch but the failure rate is considerable for my small sample size.

Come back and feel the POWER of the dark side. I've never gotten along with GasGas as they never felt quite right to me. And I could never start them I've never had a bad Beta but I've seen a few that just defy logic on getting them right. My 2013 Evo has been a rock with only a few annoying points like the clunky headstock issue (fixed with clamp on new Betas) and the carb that needs a little TLC a couple times a year and of course the clutch fix. Several of my friends have come back to "pre-owned" Betas and are happy with their choice as they like the stability but are starting to see wear issues. Both bikes were owned by a top rider and lived good but hard lives with their last owner (same guy). A few others held onto their old Gassers and are happily riding them with no issues. The one guy I know who bought a 2016 GasGas is already looking to buy something else. The reason has never been explained to me though. A few have switched over to Vertigo and are riding better than ever on expert level stuff. Reliability has been good so far but they have not been tested over the span of years. The one TRS rider I know of has sold it for something else. Again I'm not privy to the reason for the change. On the whole I'd have to say the Vertigo owners are the happiest so far so don't limit you options. I guess you need to try them all. It is a lot of crinkies for a bike these days and you might as well be happy. OK so I didn't (couldn't) really answer your questions but offer just general observations from this year. I would be keen to know what the nightmare scenario you had with the Beta was though.

Not to worry Axulsuv, the Fantic is still a fine piece of machinery. The point that seems to be lost here is it doesn't matter if most riders can't use 1/10th the ability of the current bikes. What drives innovation is seldom need. It's product differentiation that improves margin and the salability of a bike. And it can affect the riding of even the lowest novice once in a while. Will I significantly improve if I get a new bike? Probably not. Will it keep Beta in business if I buy a new bike? Yes, so Beta and all the other factories keep improving the product in the hope I'll shell out my paycheck. Just don't improve it out of my price range. Factories must balance the cost of innovation with the salability of the product. All bikes would be made of significant amounts of titanium and carbon fiber if the market would buy them and a 100lb bike would probably have a dramatic effect on your riding. Another point buried in this thread is the number of riders just looking for fun stuff to ride. The sport exists because of the duffers. Cherish them, they pay for the trophies and find the land and buy the bikes that keep the sport going. Growing the sport does not happen at the upper levels. Only by feeding the bottom levels and allowing the better riders to migrate up do you grow the sport. I admit I'm a lousy rider and getting worse but my money is just as important as the pro rider. More in fact because I pay full price for my bike. That's why I go out of my way if I see a terrible rider with a shiny new bike to make sure they are having fun. They will get better. They won't go pro. They are the foundation on which the sport survives.

No words can explain the feeling of one of your heroes passing and then realizing they were younger than you. Godspeed Bernard.

17 digit VIN should be stamped into headstock

Sounds like you've narrowed it down to ignition. Only other possibility I could see is a blockage in the exhaust but it's unlikely.

It's been interesting and I appreciate all the knowledgeable people who have contributed to this thread. Especially the ones who thought it was all bollocks but tried the fix anyway. I have many teachers here. I know that the previous research showed the initial clutch stick was from excess glue cold flowing onto the metal plates but with the new clutches this may not be the case anymore. On my 2013 the plates were better but I still swapped them out for a set of "processed" fibers that I still use. I still don't have to "break the clutch free" after three years of use. They will drag when cold but that's probably more down to oil viscosity that anything else. The thicker plates will increase the spring preload which can help reduce the tendency to slip but also increase the pull at the lever if the same master/slave hydraulic cylinder ratio is used. I suspect they will also reduce flex under load but I have nothing other than speculation on this. I don't have a set of new plates to examine so I can't really hazard a guess as to their behavior. If you do decide to pull your clutch pack please post pics. I'm curious at the current state of Beta plates as it seems there are changes recently. If you try the fix post your results. Trials is such a weird sport. We actually like to see our competitors improve. Strange lot we are.

Reiger shocks, Fuel injection, programmable ignition curves. diaphragm clutches, hydraulically formed frames, hall effect ignition triggers... Progress marches on but it's easy to lose sight until you are looking back. Is invention slowing down? Yeah probably. The curve will flatten in any sufficiently mature technology/market but it hasn't stopped. Electric is the next big frontier only because it will be necessary to satisfy the land lust of tree huggers and a radical chassis change will run into market and regulatory inertia. Otherwise we'd have all jumped on the Bultaco electric but we didn't because it looked funky. I clearly remember looking at my '87 TR34 and thinking, "That's it, there's literally nothing that can be done to make this better." In my own defense I can only add I was young and stupid. Now that I'm old and wise (stop snickering you guys) I can see that at every stage of trials bike evolution I've witnessed I thought the same thing. And I was wrong. So rest ye merry gentleman and enjoy what's to come. I'm sure there is more innovation to come that can only be appreciated once we get to play with it.

Looks like snake oil* to me. Chain drive is one of the most efficient drive methods in use because the only significant friction loss is when the chain enters or leaves the sprocket and slides over the tooth and bends to the angle of the sprocket and the reverse on leaving the sprocket. You lose a lot more efficiency using an o-ring chain. * I have a good understanding of Snake Oil. After all, I was born in the same city as Lydia Pinkham. Look it up kids.

Hmmm maybe Beta went with a deeper basket or a shallower hub on the later bikes. On my 2013 2t the thicker plates just push the clearances beyond my comfort zone.

Mike from Barnett confirmed that they do not make plates thinner than 3mm. Oh well, it was worth a look.

Older thread but... I love Gaerne's as they give me really good feel of what the bike is doing because of the soft soles. I also have very flat feet, like suction cup across a wet floor flat. This caused me to have bad foot cramps after a trials. The solution was Superfeet insoles with a raised arch to provide support. Simply remove the insoles that come with the boot and cut the new ones to match and slide them into the boot. They hold my feet in a better position without giving up any of the lovely feel of the Gaernes. There is another benefit as flat feet tend to spread out and the toes mash into the toe box of the boot so fit becomes weird. Without the insoles, boots with enough room in the toe box are too large everywhere else. "Properly" sized boots by the end of the day had me thinking, "I need to cut my toenails." because they were getting hammered into my toes every bump. If you have foot problems you can get fitted prescription orthotic insoles which may help with stance issues. My flat feet make me rather duck footed but even the cheapo Superfeet improve that. I never realized how bad I was until I tried skiing.

This is my preferred fuel dispenser. I have 10 of them and I fill them every few weeks. Small enough to throw in a pack for longer rides. Metal so they can take a crash. Light enough that filling my bike towards the end of a trials I'm not spilling gas all over the bike from wobbly arms. In the car I keep them in a Pelican type case.

Ya see here's the thing, clutches operate with a very narrow set of tolerances. These fit beautifully in the basket but they are too thick. Might they work? Yeah they might but I won't use them. When all six are used in the clutch pack the clutch pack is ~2mm thicker (eyeball measurement). My initial belief was they would merely make the spring preload higher. I'm an idiot (see Foot Note 1.) they also move the pressure plate out. The practical upshot being the slave cylinder doesn't have the travel to actuate the pressure plate. This could be corrected with a thicker thrust washer on the throw-out bearing or even a longer push rod. But you are now pushing the pressure plate, what I consider, dangerously close to the outer cover. The other thing I really didn't like was the top steel plate was right at the top of the inner hub. Would it work? Sure, but I don't have the warm fuzzys about long term reliability and failure of one plate in a clutch can lead to a cascade of problems. There is one place these plates would work great and that is replacement of the thicker two plates in the later clutches but replacing all 6 is not ready for prime time. I'll talk to Mike at Barnett and see if there are thinner plates in the same form factor. In summary, These plates are too thick to be OEM replacements Foot Note 1.: This is why you don't rely on calculations and actually put things together!

In Billy I trust. He's helped me understand an awful lot of the stuff I've later tried to expand upon. I still say if I could get within spitting distance of what he and Jon know I'd be a bright boy indeed.

See clutch fix pinned at top of forum.

One other thing I should note is you can get debris blocking the reservoir hole in the master cylinder and on some older AJPs I remember hearing there was a batch that was mis-drilled. Not likely but worth checking if nothing else pans out.

As said above check there is enough freeplay in your lever for the master cylinder piston to uncover the reservoir hole. If there isn't enough freeplay the system acts like a closed system and when the fluid heats it can expand and hold the plates just slightly apart. Check to make sure the throwout bearing isn't shimmed. I don't know if this is a Sherco thing but some other bikes use shims. You have a new basket so grooved slots are not a problem. Make sure you are not using an oil with additives like PTFE or molybdenum/tungsten disulfide. Only gearbox oil rated for wet clutches. I don't think the Beta clutch fix will help much with your slipping problem since it sounds too severe for just tab roughness. Despite what many people think trials clutches don't wear out unless you are doing a lot of full throttle splatters. Most plonkers happily get on with 10 year old plates. Likewise modern springs are made of much better materials these days and it's unlikely your springs are the culprit. Good luck finding the problem and make sure to let us know what you discover. We're all learning.

Yay! thow came up to Berwick last week. One of us! One of us!