old trials fanatic

And you could have a field day with those elegibility rules too. It really is a minefield which will only be sorted out once there is a machine scrutineer at every event who 1) knows what he is on about 2) has a spec sheet for the model concerned. look it aint gonna happen we all know that deep inside. I think like in Pre65 you just have to accept it that the people who can will modify when and where they can. Best you can hope for is the adoption of a "silouette" formula and outlaw obvious mods like discs and converted monos. If folks want to build that sort of bike then great it adds extra interest and why should you deny a person the chance to exibit his engineering skills / size of his wad? But the time has come for a specials class and any bike that is significantly modified from std will be classed as a special. If there are enough entries in that class then why not give them an award? they have paid their entry fees the same as the rest. My only concern is that the sections will be eventually laid out for those specials and as has happened in Pre65 the standard bikes will either have to be significantly modified or laid to rest which would be a shame as that is NOT why the idea of a Twinshock event was invented. How many Dinosaurs do you see nowadays? Well apart from me that is

If you mean a carb manufactured in 1964 or before then it's probably corroded away by now. Anyway we really ought to keep it on topic and talk Twinshock. The term "Twinshock" is as much the problem as anything else. Perhaps Pre 83 Twinshock would be better "for bikes manufactured before 1983 fitted with engine, brakes and suspension as originally specified by the manufacturer of that model bike." Seperate class for Pre 81 Spanish Twinshock machines for bikes manufactured before 1983 fitted with engine, brakes and suspension as originally specified by the manufacturer of that model bike. I do think that the term Twinshock on it's own is part of the problem.

Believe it or not i have been reading this thread with great interest so thanks for starting it Scrumpy Jack. I've been trying not to get involved but well you know me From my perspective what is the ACTUAL problem here if there is one? Why does a "modified" bike draw such consternation and create such a furore. 1. To a lot of people it is percieved as some form of unfair advantage some may call it cheating. But is it? Trials bikes have always been modified by their owners and we all look for that elusive edge. How many people who run so called standard bikes run gas shocks when they were not fitted as std? Sticky compound tyres when they were unheard of when the bike was made. the list goes on. 2. When does a "std" bike become a modified one? See above and my previous post. It's irrelevant unless there is a set of rules and regs that are APPLIED , thats the crux, and no one wants to be the poor sod that has to tell the rider he is inelegable for the class he has entered. 3. Would a "specials" class be beneficial to the sport? Depends on your definition of beneficial. Wether ridden on a non award basis or not the fact is that the sections WILL be made harder and harder to take marks off the riders. It happened in Pre65, it happens where air cooled monos have been allowed, it happens where National Trial winners enter Club Trials etc. It's a fact but does it benefit the sport? No! So on that count alone i have to be against the heavily modified bikes being ridden even on a non award basis. A lot of people have commented about the ridiculous situation in Pre65 and they are right. Even the ACU and Sammy Miller rounds cant agree on a unified form of rules for the bikes. That is why there needs to be a commonly accepted list of what is and what is not allowed. So we all know and are playing on a levelish playing field. Should the fact that a bike has fork gaiters make it ok whem the same bike with them removed makes it a "special" as in Yorks Classic? Yes the good rider will always beat the average one no matter how heavily modified the average riders bike is. Yes i love to look at a well engineered modified bike. I am not saying tie them to a tree and throw rotten fruit at them. Just that the place for a bike such as that is in a Modern Trial or at least a Modern Trial with a Twinshock route then at least the sections will not be modified to the detriment of the rider of a "std" twinshock. I would love to own Scrumpy Jacks Fantic but would feel "wrong" about riding it in my local Classic and Twinshock events. As some have said so more eloquently than me we have to look now at this or Twinshocks will go the way of Pre65 and the bikes that the class was created for will languish in the shed again or even worse be modified out of all recognition and lost forever. Heres a question for you that i have asked in my local Clubs and nobody seems to know. Remember in the late 60's all those Sachs engined Sprites and Saracens etc? what happened to them all? There were hundreds of them. They probably got put into sheds because they were uncompetitive. So how come nobody knows of one? How come you never see one now? How many people have also seen a Std Cub apart from in a book? The same could/will happen to Twinshocks well the std ones at least. Food for thought. Good luck with the auction Scrumpy Jack someone will be the proud owner of a very nice one off but will they realise the baggage that comes with it?

Seen your Fantic on e bay and you have made a real nice job of it. Problem as i see it is what is "modified"? What we need and this is getting more and more necessary by the week is a set of regs that apply to all "twinshock" classes across all clubs. Same with pre65 but i think they have gone past the point of no return now. Dont want to go over old ground again as the arguement has been worn thin but surely it would be better that there were an agreed set of rules for twinshock as to what is and what is not "allowed" ? Almost every bike in use today is "modified" to some extent so where do you draw the line ? All this is however irrelevant if nobody is going to police the elegibility of the machines. Strangely this seems to be more of a British phenomenon as i have noticed that the twinshocks competing in a lot of Trials in Spain etc are remarkebly standard at least in appearence. They seem to enjoy themselves. I enjoy the engineering part as much as the next bloke and would hate to stifle that part of Trials but i just wonder when a bike is classed as being "modified" and when it is not. Just my two pennorth.

He's got a point you know Otherwise Montesa 4RT if you dont mind spending a bit. However and this may or may not be a consideration. Trials bikes do depreciate rather a lot and you did say about "moving it on at a later date" the 4RT should move on ok perhaps better than some others but the price of second hand Trials bikes tends to be quite low, relatively speaking, expect to loose 50% after 2 years. So bear this in mind. Perhaps a little used second hand 4 stroke might be an idea? They are pretty rugged and reliable. Welcome to the fold anyway.

Know where you are coming from as i wear glasses too. Convinced myself for years that i couldnt wear contact lenses then after spending a fortune on every cack brained contraption to fit specs into ski goggles and prescription sunglasses, at one piont i was carrying 3 pairs with different tints, i tried daily disposable contacts. I was working as a ski instructor at the time and if you have ever tried skiing in fogged up, frosted up specs especially if worn under goggles then you havent lived. The contacts transformed my skiing and my enjoyment of it. It was possibly the adoption of those lenses that gave me the impetus to start Trialling again. I agree Trials are no fun in specs. I've never had a problen losing a lens but if you do it's amazing how you can still ski and ride with just one in. I tried it once just to find out. In fact my optician even said a lot of his patients do it so that they can read as well as see distance stuff. The brain sort of compensates and blends the vision. Not as good as wearing two but a get you home thing. I only wear them for skiing and Trials but wouldnt be without them now they are the best piece of equipment i have ever bought. Back to the subject. I cant bring myself to have the Laser treatment but good luck to anybody who has. I can always take my lenses out or change the prescription. Laser is permanent. Try the daily lenses they are very thin and you soon get used to putting them in. I found the monthlys a bit thicker and more hassle what with cleaning solution etc plus the worry of damageing or losing one. Dailys just put a new one in each time and throw away at the end of the day.

Thanks for the reply but me still no understandy. Thanks anyway i'm sure it's a good mod. I understand the longer arm so will stick with that.

Nigel with you up to the bit about "shorten clutch cable" Why would i want to shorten the clutch cable? Where do i get an ally kickstart?

Can anybody help who has experience of Bultacos ? I understand that the Pursang fork springs are about 40mm longer than the Sherpa ones? are they the same spring rate? When i went to Malvern i noticed a couple of vendors selling "progressive rate" springs for Bultacos 35mm forks. Has anybody used them? Are they any good? Are they better than the std springs? Reason for asking is that i am trying to sort out the front forks on the James project. The Marzocci internals that Alan Whitton put into Norton outers for me feel a bit "oversprung" and after measureing the springs, there are two springs a short one and a longer one in each leg, they in total are about the same length as Bultaco pursang ones. Approx 38mm longer than the ones out of my Sherpa. So do i 1. Fit std Sherpa springs with long spacers? 2. Fit Progressive springs think they are WES but dont quote me. A Scottish bloke think Classic Pre65 and Twinshock was his company name was selling them amongst others. 3. Fit Pursang springs? 4. Strap two concrete blocks to the fork yokes to compress the forks? So Bultaco experts etc please advise. I thank you

Thank you John and Dave. This is more of what we need. Communication. Good work guys thank you. Question why doesnt the ACU let us know more that they are working like this for us. I appreciate it and i am sure more of the members would not be so negative towards the ACU if they were made aware more often of the ammount of work put in on their behalf. All positive points and ones that i am sure we would all agree with. I would have no problem with the Police doing a "spot check" at a trial as i would take only seconds to do a datatag sweep of my bike. Damn good idea. Wish i had thought of it

Thanks for that John. I look forward to the summary. I just thought it fair to ask. Sorry if i was being my usual cantancerous self

I know how you love Bultacos BJ so have you seen Vestys 82 Bultaco for sale on www.willbrown.co.uk/adz ? I havent got any spare cash at the moment but you might be interested ? Hope i havent transgressed by posting this if i have i appologise Andy.

Hi Westy yes seconded about the observers. I ALWAYS make a point of thanking al the observers and thanking Jean and Chris. First time i have ever rode at Edensfield and probably the last i hate all that mud. Strangely the sections were by and large ok but trying to get between them was a "Trial" in itself. Reminds me of Teversal and i hate that place too. The lads score card disintegrated when it got wet so the section was scrubbed. To be truthful i lost interest after the first lap just wanted to get it over and done with and get home. I know Pete Elvedge was loving it. He always likes it when it's slippy and there is no grip. Your Cheetah was going well. Nice bike. Probably see you at Youlgrave next weekend. Assuming i can get up the access road. Took me three goes last time.

Firstly a big big thank you to a rider of an Arial today. If not for him i would probably still be on my back at Edensfield, what a total 5h1thole that place is, today. Brings home the old adage "Never go practising alone". Freak accident really came over a blind crest between sections, down a bank, hit a log, went over bars and somehow managed to get the bar end. throttle AND brake lever down the inside of my boot. Trapped under the bike i couldnt move. Luckily the guy on the Arial who was following me, bad move i'm usually lost, managed to stop on the crest. Thought i was going to break me leg but finally managed to move the bike enough to get under the boot and loosen the buckles but there was no way i could even reach the buckles without help. So thanks again mate if you are reading this and the rest of you when you go practising take somebody with you. It might just save your life sometime. I'll never go practising on my own again after this. Edensfield is STILL a 5h1tty dump though

Bloody hell ! For some reason ,dont know why, i feel strangely uneasy now. Anxiety attack coming on. Perhaps a hacker will break into my bank account and pay off me overdraft? There i was happily selling stuff from the garage on flea bay blissfully ignorant. Now i wont be able to sleep. thanks guys

Always thought of myself as Waldorf or is it Statler ? Probably more Beaker

Erm.....otf1.......otf? Rings a bell..... hmmmm......... ARGHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!! I'll sort it out now. I'll be deleting otf1 when done so don't be surprised if it suddenly tells you that you don't exist. Just log back in as old trials fanatic. If you hadn't just given me a tenner I'd make you wear the hat PS remember as a supporter you now have 20MB of upload space on the TC Server for photos. No need to use Photobucket etc. Make him wear the hat and restrict his password to MUPPET......... I'm back as for you slaphead and too think i was going to let you buy me a at the Pre65

All done. Thanks Andy Now dont you go and spend it all at once

I was hoping to solicit John Collins view as T & E rep for the ACU. My point about the gun crime in Nottingham was that it made no difference as you correctly say about the law banning handguns but a lot of people lost a sport they loved overnight because of a knee jerk reaction from MP wishing to be seen to be doing something. I will be asking my club chairman about it tomorrow actually. Not that it makes any difference but they are AMCA. As for bikes being stolen you dont surely think that a register will make a blind bit of difference do you ? Any more that the gun law made any difference to the number of gun crime in the UK. Bringing the guns point into this may have been a mistake on my part because a lot of people have a overdeveloped emotional stance about guns so lets all drop the gun bit ? i will re this subject. I still think it fair and valid to ask the ACU if they are going to lobby on behalf of their membership. The ones except you Nigel & Physco, and any others who would like to state their approval of more legislation, who are i assume in favour of it. If it is NOT valid that the question is asked of the ACU and John then Andy or a moderator will surely remove the thread

Well the Bill got through it's first stage yesterday and is now to go to committee. It's on it's way. So John what EXACTLY is the ACU doing / going to be doing to represent the interests of it's license holders? This bill will have an effect on just about every branch of two wheel sport of which the ACU is supposed to be the governing body. strangely enough this also includes mini moto competitions. So is the ACU going to adopt the "Ostritch stance"? or is it going to use some of our hard earned contributions to actively lobby parliament to preserve our right to follow and practice our sport unhindered and free from victimisation from those in parliament who want to get their name in the paper to try and justify their existance. If not then we will go the way of the gun clubs, i live near Nottingham Gun capital of the UK and believe me there has been no lessening of gun crime since thousands of innocent members of gun clubs had their hobby taken away in a knee jerk headline grabbing measure, and off road sport as we know it will be just a dim and distant memory. Before Dabster starts yes Nigel i have already written to my MP ! This is important to us all even if you dont think it will happen. It will if not now then by the back door at some future date. So come on John where does the ACU stand on this?? We ought to be told.

I get the same problem as well, any idea's. Yep me too just tried twice. Dont mind paying a tenner for the site but Andy you need to have a look at this as either we are all thickos, probably, or there is a glitch somewhere.

Great post I really enjoyied watching that. Well done. Anybody got anything similar of the Pre65 ?

Which rule book are we talking about here? Assume you mean the ACU Handbook? If so can't see any "politics" in it? If you dont agree to abide by the ACU or the governing body, whose auspices the Trial whose "Sections" you mention are being run under, then you should not be a license holder. If you are not a current license holder you should not be entering in a Trial. Sections only exist within a Competition otherwise you are just riding over "countryside" probably, but not necessarily if you have the landowners specific permission, illegally and therefore part of the factor contributing to the demise of the sport of Trials. As in the passing of the Parliamentary act to make all vehicles carry and display a registration mark without which they will be seized and the owner prosecuted. So sorry cant follow your logic there. Do agree about "have fun" but without rules there can be no competition. Without competition there are no Trials. Thanks for shareing anyway

Rare? Yes most people take them off and fit teles