old trials fanatic

I would double check on that if i were you. Though technically the number plate is not a part of the test you may find the tester will refuse a pass without a legal plate, that includes correct size letters and spacing, check with your tester. Just ask him before you go. I regularly have to change the plates, and can over, on my road bikes before the MoT then change them back again when i get home. Funny things MoT tests. With some things if it's fitted then it must be legal if it's not fitted then it dont have to be. Just ask the tester to be sure. You can always fit a legal one just for the test then swap it for a practical one after. Different testers seem to interpret the law differently. Brakes are another one.

Sorry what i meant was that people riding illegally have brought this on. A lot of those people adopt a sod em attitude. You are doing your best to stay within the law. Unfortunately because others havent done the same it looks like nobody will have a choice soon. I am sorry if you feel i have hi jacked your thread. I suppose i am an Old Fart and you may be too some day

I think the days of "practising" , unless at an official site with the SPECIFIC approval of the land owner are gone. There is a bill going through parliament to have ALL off road vehicals, that includes road racers moto crossers trials bikes quads etc, "registered". You will be required to have documented proof of ownership along with display of a registration number. This may not entail the vehicle being road legal but without the necessary docs and number displayed then the police will have the legal right to confiscate and prosecute for just owning the vehicle never mind using it. Even if it is on your drive! The situation you describe is very dodgy as riding along a bridleway unless a Vehicle right of way you are breaking the law no matter that your bike is road legal. It's not a road. As for the land. Do you have specific permission from the landowner to be on his land? If not then you are trespassing and liable for prosecution. Thats the way it is now and the more people go "practising" without the legalities being tied up then the more ammunition THEY will have to get our sport stopped, that will include official organised events. One venue i know of is under threat because the only access to the land is not longer a Vehicular right of way so riders have no way of getting to it. People have brought it on themselves. Polititians are looking for any opportunity to win votes and there are more out there that dont like us than do. No ammount of sod em i will do as i like will make it better

Wow thats some toy cupboard I know Spain is the country of their birth but so many bikes and in such beautiful condition. I used to think it could never happen over here but at the last Malvern show i did notice a few Trials bikes which had been restored to "as new" condition. Some like the "works" Bultacos of JR and Vesty on Dave Renhams Bultaco stand are as last used. This is a good thing because if they were ever messed about with all that "history" would dissapear. The condition and depth of models is a tribute to the Spanish peoples obvious passion for Trials and off road Motor Cycles. You are so lucky to live in a country that celebrates it's Motor Cycling heritage unlike in the UK where they seem determined to legislate it into oblivion. Thank you for sharing those photos the bikes are a credit to their owners.

Generaly agree with you on most points Zippy. I know i havent explained myself very well in the past. I will have another go. My main objection with hop bop and jump techniques is. 1. They tend to make sections ever more difficult and eventually dangerous. OK assuming there are multiple routes then this is not too much of a problem but sometimes it's very difficult to have an "easy" route that avoids the worst but is still seeable by the same observer. 2. Do all these "gymnastics" attract more riders into the sport or do they get detered thinking i will never ever be able to do THAT. Dont know but what i do know is that the most popular Trial in the World which is regularly oversubscribed is run as NO STOP. May be just a coincidance. 3. Eventually the technique demands a bike that is more and more complimentary to the performance of that technique. I dont know if this is a possative thing or not but i do wonder how much this development "improves the breed" as they used to say when Trials was first invented. Your comments on riding out of the boundary of the section then riding back in again would result in a five over here and as i dont know the rules that you ride to in the US i can not comment but will say the problem would be solved by use of a boundary tape. However with more and more multiple routes, because of the wide differential in riding levels i.e. hop skip and jump or not, then this becomes impractical. When talking to friends i tend to find that the concensus of "what makes a great Trial and great sections" then by and large everybody likes "natural" sections defined by natural boundarys. See Scottish Six Days Trial. Most disliked "artificial" sections. Only time will tell. I suppose the technique is here to stay as long as the bikes support and even require that style of riding. As for what REALLY riles me? If a trial is run under No Stop rules then that should be rigidly enforced. It really riles me when riders ignore the No Stop rule and argue with observers becoming quite aggressive on some occaisions, i have seen full blown shouting matches and even physical aggression, That is not on. That is probably why i get so hot under the collar about modern riding techniques. They are fine if thats what floats your boat and the Trial rules allow it. I just wonder if it is the way forward for large Trials entrys again or a dead end retrograde step? Hopefully that was a bit more restrained. If i get agitated it's because i care more about the future of the sport than the preferences of a few. For those that are fed up reading abot this then dont. I replied only because Zippy mentioned me in his post.

Now i am known for having a rant. Must try harder to not bite so easily. How are "They" going to know i've got an off road bike? Perhaps i'm missing something? I'll read it again. Yep read it again. Two of my Trials bikes are registered so are on SORN so dont count. The other two dont have any frame numbers as the frames are "specials" and the Manufacturer, Me, didnt see fit to stamp any so there were not any to remove. Anyway to the best of my knowledge most plod are so thick at to not know a Beta from a BSA and would just go by the name on the tank and the numbers and wouldnt know where to look for a frame number anyway. So just stamp the same number on all your bikes call them all the same and stuuf em. As usual there are so many loopholes and holes in the logic of this that you could drive a tank through it. Can see how it would affect you if you bought a brand new bike but to be honest i can never understand why anybody buying a new Trials bike doesnt get it registered at time of purchase anyway? What have you got to loose? Now Moto Crossers, yes they will have a problem. So heres the plan get every Moto Crosser and Quad rider you know to flood No10 with letters of protest. Make it letters as they have to answer and cant just send a round robin e mail such as the one Tony B Liar just sent out. Remind them that there is an election looming and that their lieing, deceitful, sham of a government is leaking popularity faster than an RTA on a trolley wiating in A&E for yet another hour. They are trying to slide this in by the back door as usual just like they did with the rights of way act hoping the usual apathy and "if i dont say anything they might ignore me and leave me alone" British attitude will prevail, which as usual it probably will, hopefully not this time. OK had a rant but it's one of my milder ones. Perhaps we should all move to Spain?

Thank you Mr Greeves i look forward to seeing them also I also look forward to meeting you at the Scottish. hopefully we can share a wee dram and talk of our shared interests. That would be very nice. I will make a point of saying hello

What an exquisite Motor Cycle. I am so in awe of not just your bikes but the incredible high standard of the bike that you have shown us over the past year. To say i am green with envy would be the understatement of the year. May little efforts pale into insignificance and i would love to have been able to fly over to see the show. Would have felt like going to heaven. One year i must try to get to see the Robregordo Trial as well. So many things to do so many beautiful motor cycles soooooo little time. Thank you greeves for shareing so many memories with us I really must get an MAR i really must

Dont know where you live but if you ride enduro then i assume you are already a member of a few clubs? My advice is to turn up at a Club Trial and offer to observe. This might not be the advice you are looking for but will give you a close up insight into how a rider attempts your section. It will also give you a chance to talk to the riders and hopefully strike up some rapport. Following on you can then enter a club trial, choose one with a Clubman route, and give it a go. dont expect wonders on your first few attempts but treat them as a learning curve. It may take you this season to really get the feel for it. You may equally be lucky / gifted and catch on quickly. The main thing to remember is Trials is a precision sport not a speed event. Even if you run out of time in the first Trial it doesnt matter as long as you take the time to find a "line" that works for you. Watch the guys you ride with and dont be afraid to ask. Choose your event with care so as not to jump in at the deep end the good guys always make it look so easy. Then when you feel more in the groove move up to the 50/50 route or another clubs Trials. Important thing is to enjoy yourself and dont take it too seriously at first. Remember to have a laugh Good luck and welcome to the greatest Motor Cycle sport on the planet

Are indoor trials run to different rules to outdoor trials? Sorry if this sounds like a stupid question, but I am a clueless n00b after all! Are indoor trials looked down upon by traditional trials riders? After all, there seems to be a lot of big steps and hopping involved. Is it effectively a different sport entirely? I dont think they are looked down on CG125 It is effectively a "different sport" not necessarily entirely. Bit like Supercross is effectively a different sport to Moto Cross. Indoor trials really showcase a riders trick riding skills to a captive audience are much more TV friendly and make money for the promoter. Dont know what relevance all that has to the WTC and the majority of Trials riders though ? So far the guys who do well in the indoor Trials events also do well in the WTC so the skills must come in handy. I do note though that the bikes are becoming more specialised for indoor events. Personally the indoor events dont really interest me but a lot of people enjoyed Sheffield and i think it was a sell out so using the yardstick that society now uses it must be a sucess.

WOW

Peace, but still keeping me tin hat on, agreed? Trials for me start with the motor cycle. Building the bike to suit my ideas and observations. Making the components in the workshop. Trying them out and modifying them till they perform to a standard that i require. Trials is about precision and form over function. Flowing serenely over the terrain. Dynamic balance, reflexes, reactions and the emotion of motion. Competing with and against other riders not just in the section but in the workshop. Winning on a bike that i did not just buy but built. Time, blood, sweat and many many tears. Riding on my own and practising have little or no attraction to me. It's just buggering about. Thats also why i only compete in Classic Trials now as the camraderie and good natured "banter" is just not there is modern trials. Been riding in competitions now for near on 40 years won a few lost more but thats not the point. Gave up for a few years in the 80's when sections got daft. Kickstart was IMHO the worst thing ever to happen to Trials in the UK. Why do i get on my high horse and have a rant when the hop and bop mob start? Well somebody has got to stand up for the spirit of Motor Cycle Trials. I have seen the sections get made dafter and dafter by organisers in futile attempts to appease and appeal to the "new" riders only to find they alienate the core of riders who were making the event financially and socially viable. Sooner or later someone is going to get killed and the backlash from the moral majority will kill the sport as we know it dead. Health & Safety are sooner than you think going to have a field day and we will all suffer as a result. Those trick riders inevetably cleared off after a few years to find a new "sport" for their adrenaline rush. While they were there they rarely put anything back into the sport invariably spent as much time argueing with and allienating observers and generally being a pain in the collective a***. Trials is a great form of motor sport. Can be enjoyied in a relative cheap way, compared to road racing and moto cross anyway, teaches you a lot about yourself, "first we learn to ride then we ride to learn", and is good excersise getting you out into the country and fresh air. The time spent in queues breathing foul two stroke fumes sort of negates this. On balance though a thoroughly posative persuit. The obsession with ever bigger steps and hazards is causing problems with suitable land availablity. Observers are few and far between sometimes because they are fed up with being abused. The hip and bop merchants just seem to want to turn up and bounce around the car park, the event is almost a hinderance, then clear off home asap. I find all this quite sad and fear as such for the future of a sport that has given so much to me over the years and over those years and for the forseeable future i hope i will continue paying back in and taking out. What is Trials ??? It's a mindset, a way of life, a religion and i'm proud to be a part of it.

"I know the Bengay fumes and Rogain must be affecting your noggin" What? Nice to know your English lessons are proving worthwhile. Keep practising Do you really have all that guff about classes at your Trials? Whatever. All getting BORING and personal which is not what this board and forum should be about. Sincerely i do hope you all over there enjoy whatever it is you do on your bikes. Only time will tell which techniques are the more appropriate to the continuation of Trials as a sport on this side of the pond. Not really bothered about the US as theyve done enough damage around the world as it is. Duck lads or stand with the enemy, probably safer, there may be friendly fire from the septics again

Proper section Nuff said

Twinnshock the bike is EXACTLY as it was when Legs sold it to me ! At some time, when i get around to restoring it, i was intending to fit a Bing. Need a second mortguage for Legs prices though Actually it runs fine. People who have tried it said it was a bit softer on power, may mean less, than others they had tried but i understand that Bultacos are very sensitive to ignition timing and exhaust condition so i cant really say. As i said when i bought it off Legs it came with an Amal. Perhaps it's his way of getting a little extra out of me He probably will.

Think you said it yourself "straight forward traditional no stop section" It's more relevant to the spectator wether they are a rider or not. What relevance, however "skillfull", is a guy riding up a 8ft sheer wall with a catcher at top and bottom to the normal spectator? Just look how popular the British Touring Car events and British / World Superbike is. Anyway just my humble opinion

Actually wonder why nobody has tried to develop a belt drive? Lots of Classic race and road bike use belt primary drives for reliability and low/no maintenance. Wonder why not for trials transmissions?

No idea what the hell you guys are on or on about but errr good luck anyway Oh yes whats a tire?

Bad math on your part. One rider can ride each section at the same time as 9 others in the other sections(per your example). So, your wrong by a factor of 10 to start with. 2 minutes was just an example. It works fine for our comps which have far fewer than 100 riders. You could use any time that was appropriate. 30 seconds to 1.5 minutes or whatever. You could even choose a time that is similar to straight riding if you wanted to discourage stops. I doubt a rider could complete a normal section any faster than 30 seconds unless they are in the wrong class. If I'm wrong on my estimate above, then just show me some example vids with a lines start-to-finish. Normal trials ain't drag racing. It is supposed to be difficult and take more time than plain trail riding. I have been respectful throughout this discussion and just tried to explain a different point of view. Seems you are unwilling or unable to do the same. At least I am willing to listen to another opinion and consider it fully before throwing it out like garbage. You can stick your and your bad attitude where the sun don't shine. Didnt know i wasnt being "respectful" ??? or had a "bad" attitude. Whatever perhaps youre not used to a robust discussion wherever you come from. Do you ever encounter irony over there ? Yes being a bit contentious with the maths but do we really want to have observers juggling stopwatches and a board and pencil in the freezing pouring rain so somebody can show off? Perhaps. Dont know. Very few sections take 30 secs to ride anyway. Well perhaps your way? Most sections that took longer than 30 seconds to ride would result in hold ups that would cause massive problems to the running of an event. I was pondering this today at work. Forget all the other riders imagine they dont exist. Most laps even missing sections altogether take ? say 20 mins. Average 5 laps so 1hr 40 mins ish. Remember it's not a moto cross. Lets call it 1hr 30. You suggested 2 mins but i would think 30 secs more than adequate unless you like a kip half way through. So 10sections per lap = 50 sections @ 30 secs per section = 25 mins + 1hr 30m = approx 2 hrs assuming no other riders were entered. However ! most trials aim for 100 entries but lets say only 60 turned up as it's not a very popular event, too many trick sections say, that means potentially 6 riders queueing at every section and that means a minimum 3 min delay for every section so 3mins x 50 sections = 2hrs 30 mins waiting time to be added to the 2 hours above. so total time to ride the trial approx 4hrs 30 mins. Now i know you dont like my maths and i have tried to make these figures more realistic but surely you can see the problem especially when you add riders hanging about for a rock to move etc. I have no problem with riders wanting to show off in sections if thats the way they get their rocks off but and it's a big but as there have been a lot of trials lately affected by riders going over the total time limit, you must bear it in mind. "modern" riding "styles" do very little to help a Trial keep moving. Barry Baines was right about the repeat button it has all been said before and it will always come down to personal preference and attempting to gain a fiar or unfair, depends on wether you can or cant, advantage. If you think all thats Disrespectful, sorry cant do the stupid hand gesture, or i am dissing you then try getting out more. I shall now take my bad attitude where the sun dont shine. Thanks for the compliment. Thank god for the atlantic. Thats irony by the way.

Young Bo Drinker was struggling to post some piccys from Malvern as he's new to photobucket. Bet he's not new to some buckets Anyway being a kindly OTF i said i would lend him my photobucket so here's some of Bo's piccys. Enjoy those who couldnt make it. remember next year Martin Matthews has offered to organise a mid day meet (p*** up ) http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y117/NVT160/zmal008.jpg http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y117/NVT160/zmal007.jpg http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y117/NVT160/zmal006.jpg http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y117/NVT160/zmal003.jpg http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y117/NVT160/zmal002.jpg I can vouch for the cub, it's Alan Whittons, it rides just like a modern 4 stroke. Nothing like a cub at all There ya go Bo thats me image ruined

OK 100 entries x 2 mins = 200mins x 10 sections = 2000 mins x 4 laps = 8000 mins = 133.33 hours = 5.55 days are you real Or are you suggesting every trial is like the SSDT? Ahh know what you mean. I dont know why the organisers wont let me use my skills with the MiG welder to fit a monoshock back end to the B40. I mean it's just so "old skool thinkin" innit?

Just copy and paste the url, thats the box starting http, onto a posting then we can just click on the link and see your piccys.

Well said Ishy it is only a game. "I believe one must keep moving forward in a British trial to not fall foul of the rules." There you go Einstein it's called the NO STOP RULE so according to you you are in favour of it. Good lad youve seen the light Here's a thought about another game. I love to play snooker. I'm crap at it. Actually i'm worse at snooker than i am at trials so that tells you how crap i am. Anyway those of you that have been to matches where the top names play are usually treated to a display of "trick shots" and "skills" by some of the top players who all have a little show of their own to entertain the public. These spots usually involve bottles, glasses and sometimes members of the public all used as props for the players to display their "techniques". It's amazing to watch and extremely skillful. However i have yet to know of ANYBODY who suggests that we start to put obsticles like ashtrays and bottles on a snooker table just so some of the players can demonstrate what a good trick shot player they are. Quite often you find that the best "trick shot" player is only a mediocre snooker player or a has been just trying to "extend" his career a little bit longer. I can almost visualise the furrow appearing in the hair gel of some on this board as this post screams over their head. The phrase "if you have to ask you wouldnt understand the answer" comes to mind and fits rather well methinks. Almost divides into two camps. You can bet the "came from bicycle trials" lot want to gaily skip and hop to their hearts content whilst riders from the "Motor Cyclist who have taken up Trials" camp think it's about choosing a line and, i know this is contentious, riding it. Anybody got any stats for the success rate of "pogoers" in proper Trials like the SSDT and the Scott as against "proper riders" ? I know the top 10 in the sport will always shine but wonder where the hop, roll back, hop, roll back, hop, help where's me minder i need someone to tell me where to go skills do much to assist them in real trials as against the circus big top. There you knew it was coming

Bloody kids

Yes i think it was me I had two and still have the other one. I wasnt sure it was you but remember you mentioning the airbox and thought it might be the one i sold then looked up an old e mail and saw the name was Wood so put two and two together. Those ex works bikes on Dave Renhams stand were well modified but it was all fit for purpose in those days. Very home built to our modern eyes. The main point seemed to be to try and move the swing arm pivot further and further forwards resulting in JR's being half way up the cases. Must have been a bugger to work on.