nigel dabster Posted August 26, 2009 Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 For the sake of argument, let Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulmac Posted August 26, 2009 Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 You have point Dabster but think about this - the SY works better at no stop than most other brands 'right out of the box' - big lump or not - so maybe, just maybe there is life in the old dog yet... Paul M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b40rt Posted August 26, 2009 Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 You have point Dabster but think about this - the SY works better at no stop than most other brands 'right out of the box' - big lump or not - so maybe, just maybe there is life in the old dog yet...Paul M Big "reliable" lump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ishy Posted August 26, 2009 Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 Nowt better than dropping a big reliable lump Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted August 26, 2009 Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 You have point Dabster but think about this - the SY works better at no stop than most other brands 'right out of the box' - big lump or not - so maybe, just maybe there is life in the old dog yet...Paul M Definately but the price isn't right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony27 Posted August 27, 2009 Report Share Posted August 27, 2009 I'm guessing that yamaha is playing the GFC card & saying it's not economically viable to be building such a small volume engine with only 1 application & no use for it elsewhere, that & like the other japanese manufacturers are looking to stop 2 stroke production Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted August 27, 2009 Report Share Posted August 27, 2009 I'm guessing that yamaha is playing the GFC card & saying it's not economically viable to be building such a small volume engine with only 1 application & no use for it elsewhere, that & like the other japanese manufacturers are looking to stop 2 stroke production I think you have hit the nail on the head, and is why the margin just hasn't been there for Scorpa as the sales have always been less than the other makes. Try to think what the conversation would be like to get Yamaha to tool up to produce a non-current motor, and what numbers they would want to be ordered for a big corporation to make it worth there while to set up? This is why the Sherco has been successful as all parts are made in small batches and put together in house. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toofasttim Posted August 28, 2009 Report Share Posted August 28, 2009 I think you have hit the nail on the head, and is why the margin just hasn't been there for Scorpa as the sales have always been less than the other makes. Try to think what the conversation would be like to get Yamaha to tool up to produce a non-current motor, and what numbers they would want to be ordered for a big corporation to make it worth there while to set up? It's an interesting point. I suppose, if Yamaha wanted, they could license the motor off to some Chinese mob like the Japs have with other non-current designs. But would the volumes justify it? Would the Chinese be able to make a profit even with a low volume production motor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony27 Posted August 28, 2009 Report Share Posted August 28, 2009 With the length of time the TYZ motor has been around the moulds for the engine are possibly nearing the end of their life, the amount of engine cases etc needed for 1 year of scorpa production would probably be less than a days production. There is the very real possibility that yamaha only produced the motors every few years as ecomony of scale says that the change over time of 1-2 hours for each of the moulds plus changing set ups on the CNC mills for the bearing holes & mating surfaces would not be worth it for the numbers required The reason sherco etc have been successful is that they have the cylinders done by the same company as each other or at least sherco & beta do anyway. They use a specialist piston manufacturer, in beta & sherco's case vertex who do replacement parts for japanese bikes as well & are used to doing lots of small runs. The sherco 290 & beta 270 have the same piston with a swapable name insert in the mould. The same manufacturer does both beta's & montesa's frames. Most use the same forks, everyone uses ajp brakes. Basically they all design the parts & have them made then assemble them at their own factories with a lot of shared components that are all made relatively locally rather than buying a ready built motor from half way across the world Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toofasttim Posted August 28, 2009 Report Share Posted August 28, 2009 There I was thinking you were Tony the copper. Your knowledge of casting and machining is impressive if you are Tony the copper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterb Posted August 28, 2009 Report Share Posted August 28, 2009 Hi de ho there Tim, Will give you a call soon. tis not Tony the copper, but someone much closer to home. Ta ta, PeterB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony27 Posted August 29, 2009 Report Share Posted August 29, 2009 Nope Tim not a copper just a toolmaker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ham2 Posted August 29, 2009 Report Share Posted August 29, 2009 (edited) Here's my stab at which direction Tessier and Scorpa take now: If there is no Yamaha input then Scorpa really have to look around for new options. They could be the cheaper ,down-market arm of Sherco. In the same way that Skoda is the poorer relation of Audi i.e Scorpa use most of the chassis and running gear of the old style Shercos, so whilst not receiving the latest high-tech they do use tried and tested kit.???? Edited August 29, 2009 by HAM2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted August 29, 2009 Report Share Posted August 29, 2009 Here's my stab at which direction Tessier and Scorpa take now:If there is no Yamaha input then Scorpa really have to look around for new options. They could be the cheaper ,down-market arm of Sherco. In the same way that Skoda is the poorer relation of Audi i.e Scorpa use most of the chassis and running gear of the old style Shercos, so whilst not receiving the latest high-tech they do use tried and tested kit.???? Great idea, take this years engine which is reliable and powerful yet light, soften it a bit use the new frame for an economy sherco/scorpa for 2010. Knock em out for 2999 and they are onto a winner.? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorpa4banger Posted August 29, 2009 Report Share Posted August 29, 2009 I just hope they offer a spare parts service for existing models.. sooner rather than later What if they used a softer version of the sherco 250 motor and put it in the scorpa frame and changed they exhaust to suit .. the front end of the 09 scorpa is the same as the 09 gas gas its just the frame, air box, carb and swing arm they have to buy in like scorpa did if they just ran with the Sy 250 model it wouldn't be too expensive, why would they maket the scorpa as beeing a cheap model when that isnt what scorpa is about since there build quality and reliabillity is slightly superior to all models apart from montesa, you cant just start selling scorpas and market them as a budget brand especially when the 09 scorpa is a slightly better all round bike than the 09 250 sherco Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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