b40rt Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 Simply put, I am against it because it takes more skill to balance the bike when stopped than when it is moving !!! Yes ,I can hop and balance,most of the time with feet up,and if my foot goes down I take my point. People are gunning for a change in the number of participants, and that is good, but to alter the sport at the top levels to accomodate folks with less talent and/or dedication is not the way to go. Why can't we have a series for both stop and no stop ??? That would seem to allow for the most entries, and bike sales, all around. Can't we all just get along for the good of the sport's future without having to leave anyone out ??? Alot of trials are multi route, so say three no stop routes, three stop routes, might not be easy to lay out or observe ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 Well Said ! It's not well said because if you rode in trials in the UK you would know that it is unjustified and inaccurate as 1) it is generally 'old farts' who undertake the organisational roles, so if riders have better ideas to move BTC forward they need to do something about it, get more involved in club and centre meetings to make their feelings known and get more actively involved in running the sport. 2) There is no progress, the entries have steadily diminished in recent years. It's not 'old farts' who need to up their game, it is new riders who aspire to ride at BTC level - and they can't because the sport at that level is now too hard for all but a few. Trials at national level but not BTC are generally held under no-stop rules and the entry list is almost always full. No further comment needed on that. Whatever happens with BTC, those trials will be unaffected and riders will continue to enjoy them. This is why it matters not a bit to your average club rider (80% of riders?) what happens at BTC and makes no difference to their enjoyment whether that series is capable of 'grooming' future world champions or not, or whether we have a world champion. Does it lessen your enjoyment that there is no US world trials champion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 Simply put, I am against it because it takes more skill to balance the bike when stopped than when it is moving !!! Yes ,I can hop and balance,most of the time with feet up,and if my foot goes down I take my point. People are gunning for a change in the number of participants, and that is good, but to alter the sport at the top levels to accomodate folks with less talent and/or dedication is not the way to go. Why can't we have a series for both stop and no stop ??? That would seem to allow for the most entries, and bike sales, all around. Can't we all just get along for the good of the sport's future without having to leave anyone out ??? You're repeatedly missing the point - the 'talent' isn't there which is why the entries are diminishing. To take marks off the current champion means that the sections are so hard riders in 4th place or lower are generally taking 3 and 5 on the sections and finishing over 100 marks. It isn't working, no riders are coming through. The rules aren't changing so over 40 riders can relive their youth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 Simply put, I am against it because it takes more skill to balance the bike when stopped than when it is moving !!! Achieving a clean with a non-stop ride is arguably more difficult as you only get one go, you have to plan a line and stick to it. Make a mistake and go off it and it will cost you marks. Allowed to stop, you can repeatedly correct mistakes by hopping back on line and achieve a clean. Which is why stop and hop sections have to more difficult in order to take marks - which is where the problem begins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baldilocks Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 Your argument doesn't hold water. If fact, I think you just made a great case for the WTC's sales influence. Montesa would probably be a top selling bike if they sold a bike that was even close in capability to what that Bou rides and were priced competitively. They arent and they dont. Everyone knows they are one off's and might as well be made buy a different brand - oh wait - they are! Just look at the popularity of the many replica bikes from GG (Raga and Race), OSSA (Fajardo), BETA (factory) and SHERCO (Cab and Pax). These companies are sales driven and respond to what there customers want. WRONG if montesa made a copy of Bous bike they wouldnt sell any, nobody could afford to buy it. In 2007 the UK importer claimed the factory bike cost Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smalley250 Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 If they make the WTC no stop I'm sure it will be the best idea ever! Why are you against it so much? Is it that the hopping rule suits you because you can have 1 foot down and completely move the bike where you want to and it's only a 1? That is no skill in trials and I can assure you that is part of what makes trials farcical and why people are gunning for a change. You shouldn't be able to move the bike around with your feet down, it's ludacris and defeats the whole object of the job. I have heard many riders dispute they didnt stop with the observer, plus alot of observers are not policing it that well, many allow a stop. Also riders complainin to the observer that the section is not a non stop section. This is injust to the poor soles whom stand out in dire conditions so we can enjoy our sport. Im over forty and can hop no problems, why because unlike my first bikes 1971 Montesa 247 and then 1980 Ty 175, my current 2011 GasGas can stop n start and has a great clutch. Why inhibit the progess of the machines and skill. Beginners and novices may stop and re foot as unskilled or unsure then its a five, stop allows them to continue and complete the section whilst still within a chance of enjoying the challenge. Numbers are down simply because of costs. I spoke to a father a couple of weeks ago, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telecat Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 Personally I have combined punching with marking and Timekeeping at a BTC. IT wasn't that difficult or maybe I'm just better..... I notice not many have bothered taking on my arguments. Obviously too good for you. As for rider numbers the current system is about to produce them. Now it looks like panic has set in and YMSA Trials are going to be the British Championship for those wanting to progress now that the BTC has been "Tainted" by those who want everybody to win a BTC round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 (edited) What about a test event run on btc new rules with all the organisers so the standard of sections observing etc etc can be tried out, maybe a revive the british experts to show whats allowed and so on. With a trial event problems could be ironed out and a consistent level of observing established ???? Also if new riders or more riders want to have a go they could see the standard of sections they might be asked to ride? why are British roumds so expensive to enter? Edited November 26, 2011 by Nigel Dabster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smalley250 Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 Personally I have combined punching with marking and Timekeeping at a BTC. IT wasn't that difficult or maybe I'm just better..... I notice not many have bothered taking on my arguments. Obviously too good for you. As for rider numbers the current system is about to produce them. Now it looks like panic has set in and YMSA Trials are going to be the British Championship for those wanting to progress now that the BTC has been "Tainted" by those who want everybody to win a BTC round. What in the lords teeth are you talking about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shercosi Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 Am i right when i say 90% riders ride a section no stop anyway as most of us cannnot hop and bounce so what difference does it make which way the rules are if sections are marked to be riden nostop then that must surely benifit 90% of riders am i right or wrong i'm sure someone will put me in my place Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camberman Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 I have heard many riders dispute they didnt stop with the observer, plus alot of observers are not policing it that well, many allow a stop. Also riders complainin to the observer that the section is not a non stop section. This is injust to the poor soles whom stand out in dire conditions so we can enjoy our sport. Im over forty and can hop no problems, why because unlike my first bikes 1971 Montesa 247 and then 1980 Ty 175, my current 2011 GasGas can stop n start and has a great clutch. Why inhibit the progess of the machines and skill. Beginners and novices may stop and re foot as unskilled or unsure then its a five, stop allows them to continue and complete the section whilst still within a chance of enjoying the challenge. Numbers are down simply because of costs. I spoke to a father a couple of weeks ago, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camberman Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 I have heard many riders dispute they didnt stop with the observer, plus alot of observers are not policing it that well, many allow a stop. Also riders complainin to the observer that the section is not a non stop section. This is injust to the poor soles whom stand out in dire conditions so we can enjoy our sport. Im over forty and can hop no problems, why because unlike my first bikes 1971 Montesa 247 and then 1980 Ty 175, my current 2011 GasGas can stop n start and has a great clutch. Why inhibit the progess of the machines and skill. Beginners and novices may stop and re foot as unskilled or unsure then its a five, stop allows them to continue and complete the section whilst still within a chance of enjoying the challenge. Numbers are down simply because of costs. I spoke to a father a couple of weeks ago, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camberman Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 It's not well said because if you rode in trials in the UK you would know that it is unjustified and inaccurate as 1) it is generally 'old farts' who undertake the organisational roles, so if riders have better ideas to move BTC forward they need to do something about it, get more involved in club and centre meetings to make their feelings known and get more actively involved in running the sport. 2) There is no progress, the entries have steadily diminished in recent years. It's not 'old farts' who need to up their game, it is new riders who aspire to ride at BTC level - and they can't because the sport at that level is now too hard for all but a few. Trials at national level but not BTC are generally held under no-stop rules and the entry list is almost always full. No further comment needed on that. Whatever happens with BTC, those trials will be unaffected and riders will continue to enjoy them. This is why it matters not a bit to your average club rider (80% of riders?) what happens at BTC and makes no difference to their enjoyment whether that series is capable of 'grooming' future world champions or not, or whether we have a world champion. Does it lessen your enjoyment that there is no US world trials champion? It does not lessen my enjoyment that there is no current US world champion , any more than the lack of an English one. I admire skill, talent, and dedication from wherever it comes. I will say that I am still very proud of one Mr.Bernie Schrieber who did bring many new techniques to the sport. The very fact that only a few can aspire to reach the top of the sport is one of the reasons the sport is so cool in the first place !!! Good luck "grooming" a future champion with the "no stop" rule in place. Spain must be laughing at all this as they seem to have no problem finding talented riders willing to take on the challenge !!! Bye the way, I mean no offense with the term "Old Farts" as at the age of 52 ,i consider myself to be one as well! But I am willing and able to hop my bikes at will, because I work at it !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camberman Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 I have heard many riders dispute they didnt stop with the observer, plus alot of observers are not policing it that well, many allow a stop. Also riders complainin to the observer that the section is not a non stop section. This is injust to the poor soles whom stand out in dire conditions so we can enjoy our sport. Im over forty and can hop no problems, why because unlike my first bikes 1971 Montesa 247 and then 1980 Ty 175, my current 2011 GasGas can stop n start and has a great clutch. Why inhibit the progess of the machines and skill. Beginners and novices may stop and re foot as unskilled or unsure then its a five, stop allows them to continue and complete the section whilst still within a chance of enjoying the challenge. Numbers are down simply because of costs. I spoke to a father a couple of weeks ago, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camberman Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 WRONG if montesa made a copy of Bous bike they wouldnt sell any, nobody could afford to buy it. In 2007 the UK importer claimed the factory bike cost Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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