jimmyl Posted February 26, 2016 Report Share Posted February 26, 2016 My suggestion is each time a rise in entry fees is considered those involved in the decision need to think hard if it really is necessary. I think it would be a good idea if clubs provided a breakdown of what the entry fee is used for. Best management practices need to be identified and copied. If one club can fund purchase of significant amounts of land yet another nearby running a similar number of events with similar entry fees does not, is that right? Why is entry fee in Netherlands only 5 to 7 Euro? Why can't that be the amount in the UK. Cant speak for any other centre or club but all this information is available during our AGM's and normally published. Have you asked for this during your club meeting or centre board meeting. I know as a group of riders and also clubs we vote on the entry fee for the coming year based on these facts - is that the same in your club/centre. I don't think you can compare 1 country against another on just one variable - need to take total annual cost into account - ie licence fee etc. We pay a £10 registration fee per year for ACU - the rest is a pay per play levy. Also what fringe benefits are you comparing with - ie Insurance cover etc Cover for officials, expenses for observers etc All these add up. I'm sure in your business you would compare quotes based upon the same set of specifications other wise its meaningless. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the addict Posted February 26, 2016 Report Share Posted February 26, 2016 We've seen over 30% inflation in just the past 10 years, an entry fee of £10 in 2006 needs to be at least £13 today just to keep up with inflation, go another 10 years and it needs to be near the £18 mark. If you do not keep in line with inflation on your sales then you will soon find yourself seriously out of pocket quite quickly. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gizza5 Posted February 26, 2016 Report Share Posted February 26, 2016 Five chuffing pages yet it's all about choice? Ride a Trial at the cost of whatever the organising club choose Practise Or sell up and put the money in the bank I just spent more than a trial entry on a Pizza for my tea gonna be a load of fun eating it problem is as stated it cost more and the fun will be over in less time than a trial? Tight burgers trials riders nowt changes ? 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ourian Posted February 26, 2016 Report Share Posted February 26, 2016 Judging by the figures below - a trial entry fee and a gallon of petrol are a bargain now when compared to 1975 1975 2015 % increase Average wage/year £ 2,300 26,500 1152 Cost of gallon of petrol £ 0.73 4.60 630 Entry fee of a trial £ 2.00 12-15 600-750 Montesa Cota £ 500 approx 5500 1100 Figures are taken from various publications of the period and internet resources 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
collyolly Posted February 27, 2016 Report Share Posted February 27, 2016 This has got to be the best wind up by 'dadof' so far, if he has to ask why we can't have 7 Euro trials in the U.K. he has absolutely no idea how the running of our sport works. Start by doing an A.C.U. trials return and you will soon see where a large proportion of the money goes, then go and find out how much it's going to cost to rent the venue and you have your answer. As I said in a previous post the entry fees are cheap and it's about time we all got real, these costs even apply to practice days unless of course you have your own venue and don't want any form of insurance and then of course you are not riding 'Trials' you are just riding around. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tribet Posted February 27, 2016 Report Share Posted February 27, 2016 Fair play to dadof2 he's caught a few in the keep net with this wind up. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
okjc250 Posted March 14, 2016 Report Share Posted March 14, 2016 I come to this scene from the track day scene. Purely because it's all local and costs less than a 10th of a trackday all on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadof2 Posted March 24, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2016 Judging by the figures below - a trial entry fee and a gallon of petrol are a bargain now when compared to 1975 1975 2015 % increase Average wage/year £ 2,300 26,500 1152 Cost of gallon of petrol £ 0.73 4.60 630 Entry fee of a trial £ 2.00 12-15 600-750 Montesa Cota £ 500 approx 5500 1100 Figures are taken from various publications of the period and internet resources I have waited a while before posting again on this. There has now been at least 2 trials this year in this area with £20 entry fees, in 1975 /76 these same events had entry fees of £1 plus an SAE. That represents a rise of near 2000% I have never had anything to do with the financial side of clubs who run trials but I have made flags, end cards, tape, observed, flagged out courses and sections etc. At MX and grass track I have put in posts, roped, put up paling fencing and built jumps with sleepers & earth. All this willingly and for free. Fortunately there are still some trials available at £12 to £15. Looking at the results of a recent £20 trial the vast majority, particularly on the easy course were in the over 40s category, without newcomers the sport will decline. When these event had lower entry fees less than 25% of the entry would be over 40. I know there are more factors than entry fees causing the rise in riders age but I have no doubt finance is a factor particularly among the 18 to 25 age group. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmyl Posted March 25, 2016 Report Share Posted March 25, 2016 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyboxer Posted March 25, 2016 Report Share Posted March 25, 2016 (edited) I have waited a while before posting again on this. There has now been at least 2 trials this year in this area with £20 entry fees, in 1975 /76 these same events had entry fees of £1 plus an SAE. That represents a rise of near 2000% Blimey in 1976, a TY175 was about £600 brand new and wages were a lot lower In 2016 a new Trials bike is about £5000, average wage is about £24k and you reckon £20 to enter a Trial is too dear You need to get out more.................... you really, really do I was at a Richmond Trial, 2 weeks ago................you couldn't move for competitors or Vans, all ages from 6/7 year olds up to 70+ olds No shortage of entry numbers whatsoever, all happy to pay £15 for 4 hours of fun and banter, must have been 100+ riders Have you been to the cinema lately........... £10 per person gets you nowhere? Edited March 25, 2016 by johnnyboxer 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael_t Posted March 28, 2016 Report Share Posted March 28, 2016 Certainly is an interesting topic. I am not sure trying to figure out how prices have held up with inflation or the cost of other sports is overly relevant but I do think it is interesting to figure out what riding a trials event is worth to people. Unfortunately it is not that simple as events are worth different amounts to different people. There are people who are willing to pay to fly to Scotland rent a bike pay the entry fees to ride the SSDT and I am pretty sure the entry fee is the last thing they are thinking about. There are also people who won't even ride in a trials event if you paid them to. If you really want to ride a trials event enough to go out and buy a trials bike and start practicing regularly you would most likely pay what ever the price was (within reason). We have been putting on trials events for the past 6 years and don't charge the riders. We put on 5 events a year at different venues around the region typically 8 section 3 or 4 laps with 3 lines (Jr, intermediate and advanced). I really enjoy laying out sections and organizing the events it is all volunteer effort put in by people who enjoy the sport. It is actually a lot of work and there are travel costs, fuel costs, wear and tear on equipment, marking tape ..etc. There are countless hours involved but not really that much more than actually practicing for and riding in the events so to me it is just part of the sport. We have put on events where we have been paid to have the event as part of a show. At these types of events we pay the riders. To me this seems like a better way to run things, make it a good enough show that you get spectators and sponsors covering your costs instead of the riders. We do charge riders when we fly in a pro rider to do a training day but I feel people see the value in supporting that rider and covering his costs. Despite the training days being the only events that costs the riders they are the ones that get the most riders attending. So organizations are kind of stuck in setting what they are willing to pay or charge riders to ride in events and then figuring out where to get the funds from or where to spend them... You could just keep doubling the fees until people stop coming or keep doubling the pay until you got more riders. I bet the results would be you would see little effect the first and second time you doubled it. I would say there are very few that run events like a business and typically just charge what they have always charged with the fear of losing people. Which is why I feel trying to rationalize the fees against inflation has little relevance. Sorry for the long post... waiting for things to warm up so we can get our season started . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the addict Posted March 28, 2016 Report Share Posted March 28, 2016 UK Inflation from 1975 to 2015 has been approximately 830%, so a £1 entry fee in 1975 should be around £8.30 today. This of course does not allow for any variations the clubs now take on re extra Insurances and so on. I'm still baffled how you think £10 - £20 is a lot for an entry fee for a motorsport discipline? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazybond700 Posted March 29, 2016 Report Share Posted March 29, 2016 (edited) Certainly is an interesting topic. I am not sure trying to figure out how prices have held up with inflation or the cost of other sports is overly relevant but I do think it is interesting to figure out what riding a trials event is worth to people. Unfortunately it is not that simple as events are worth different amounts to different people. There are people who are willing to pay to fly to Scotland rent a bike pay the entry fees to ride the SSDT and I am pretty sure the entry fee is the last thing they are thinking about. There are also people who won't even ride in a trials event if you paid them to. If you really want to ride a trials event enough to go out and buy a trials bike and start practicing regularly you would most likely pay what ever the price was (within reason). We have been putting on trials events for the past 6 years and don't charge the riders. We put on 5 events a year at different venues around the region typically 8 section 3 or 4 laps with 3 lines (Jr, intermediate and advanced). I really enjoy laying out sections and organizing the events it is all volunteer effort put in by people who enjoy the sport. It is actually a lot of work and there are travel costs, fuel costs, wear and tear on equipment, marking tape ..etc. There are countless hours involved but not really that much more than actually practicing for and riding in the events so to me it is just part of the sport. We have put on events where we have been paid to have the event as part of a show. At these types of events we pay the riders. To me this seems like a better way to run things, make it a good enough show that you get spectators and sponsors covering your costs instead of the riders. We do charge riders when we fly in a pro rider to do a training day but I feel people see the value in supporting that rider and covering his costs. Despite the training days being the only events that costs the riders they are the ones that get the most riders attending. So organizations are kind of stuck in setting what they are willing to pay or charge riders to ride in events and then figuring out where to get the funds from or where to spend them... You could just keep doubling the fees until people stop coming or keep doubling the pay until you got more riders. I bet the results would be you would see little effect the first and second time you doubled it. I would say there are very few that run events like a business and typically just charge what they have always charged with the fear of losing people. Which is why I feel trying to rationalize the fees against inflation has little relevance. Sorry for the long post... waiting for things to warm up so we can get our season started . Good points. However, In the Netherlands and Belgium there used to be a big field of Supermotard riders. Big competitions, lots of entries. However costs became higher and higher. Fees, licence etc and offcoarse your own costs tires petrol (race and to get there). Lower amount of participants, some clubs stoped organising, and now they have a combined cup. However this brings a lot of travel costs for riders, and the amount of riders is still declining. Lately they tried an ''open'' class. Just people with an enduro bike, put some road tyres on them, and a lot of people entried, because the costs were still fun! Some riders where actually old ''inters'' and rode faster on a 2stroke enduro bike with 21'' and 18'' wheels than people in the competition class. So we must be carefull that costs stay fun. Edited March 29, 2016 by crazybond700 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b40rt Posted March 29, 2016 Report Share Posted March 29, 2016 (edited) Good points. However, In the Netherlands and Belgium there used to be a big field of Supermotard riders. Big competitions, lots of entries. However costs became higher and higher. Fees, licence etc and offcoarse your own costs tires petrol (race and to get there). Lower amount of participants, some clubs stoped organising, and now they have a combined cup. However this brings a lot of travel costs for riders, and the amount of riders is still declining. Lately they tried an ''open'' class. Just people with an enduro bike, put some road tyres on them, and a lot of people entried, because the costs were still fun! Some riders where actually old ''inters'' and rode faster on a 2stroke enduro bike with 21'' and 18'' wheels than people in the competition class. So we must be carefull that costs stay fun. Good answer, for all those who say it's to cheap I'm sure the ACU will happily accept donations of all your surplus money. Edited March 29, 2016 by b40rt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heffergm Posted March 29, 2016 Report Share Posted March 29, 2016 I'm still baffled how you think £10 - £20 is a lot for an entry fee for a motorsport discipline? +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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