breagh Posted December 20, 2016 Report Share Posted December 20, 2016 I thought for a while that modern trials needs to re invent itself It's a real clumsy format with loads of rules and routes that's nothing like the sport I started out in. New folks heads spin when they turn up and when they look at some of the sections about pass out Personally I would prefer what I would call an "Enduro" style of trial where it's not all about the sections more flowing . I know I wouldn't want an out and out race but there must be a format that would work. I've bandied this about in the club up here for a while the trouble is they all think like trials riders. I've not given up yet. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyboxer Posted December 20, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2016 I thought for a while that modern trials needs to re invent itself It's a real clumsy format with loads of rules and routes that's nothing like the sport I started out in. New folks heads spin when they turn up and when they look at some of the sections about pass out Personally I would prefer what I would call an "Enduro" style of trial where it's not all about the sections more flowing . I know I wouldn't want an out and out race but there must be a format that would work. I've bandied this about in the club up here for a while the trouble is they all think like trials riders. I've not given up yet. Not a bad idea At some trials there are so many flags my head hurts 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokey125 Posted December 21, 2016 Report Share Posted December 21, 2016 Trials bikes have never really been trail blazers when it comes to new technology most of the major changes have happened after it has already been proven elsewhere in the industry. Within the constraints of the ICE as the power source the only real big change I can see is using the engine as a full stressed member and doing away with the frame. I can’t see anyone doing this as it’s too far out of most people’s comfort zone and would probably not sell. If they wanted to really rock the boat then development of direct induction two strokes to help clean up the image of the sport would be interesting but I can’t see any of the current manufacturers having the resources to do this. In reality the only big change I can imagine is likely to happen, is the move over to electric bikes. As has been said it would keep the tree huggers and NIMBY’S happy as you won’t be using petrol and you’re barely able to hear them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrsunt Posted December 21, 2016 Report Share Posted December 21, 2016 footrests that don't let your feet come off and an onboard gyroscope to self balance the bike. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbofurball Posted December 21, 2016 Report Share Posted December 21, 2016 ... When I was running trials for Bath Classic I got fed up with turning away people wanting to enter on modern bikes,as I said to them its a classic club with appropriate sections for older bikes. They just wanted somewhere to ride where they could get around without killing themselves or looking stupid ... Sounds like you could organise an all-bikes light trial every now and then, and get an infusion of extra members and money, which could then be used to encourage more classic trials. As someone on a modern who likes doing gentle stuff (I'm a newbie, but also have a bad knee) I'm super glad there's a couple of clubs local to me who do precisely this! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spen Posted December 21, 2016 Report Share Posted December 21, 2016 Trials bikes have never really been trail blazers when it comes to new technology most of the major changes have happened after it has already been proven elsewhere in the industry. Within the constraints of the ICE as the power source the only real big change I can see is using the engine as a full stressed member and doing away with the frame. I can’t see anyone doing this as it’s too far out of most people’s comfort zone and would probably not sell. If they wanted to really rock the boat then development of direct induction two strokes to help clean up the image of the sport would be interesting but I can’t see any of the current manufacturers having the resources to do this. In reality the only big change I can imagine is likely to happen, is the move over to electric bikes. As has been said it would keep the tree huggers and NIMBY’S happy as you won’t be using petrol and you’re barely able to hear them. What a lot of people don't seem to consider is where the power comes from to recharge these 'clean' electric motor's batteries...... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heffergm Posted December 21, 2016 Report Share Posted December 21, 2016 (edited) What a lot of people don't seem to consider is where the power comes from to recharge these 'clean' electric motor's batteries...... You're right, they don't consider it. But roughly speaking (and I'm quoting this): "Electrical energy is created by burning fossil fuels in a power plant at 40% efficiency, followed by transmitting it to your house at 93% efficiency, and using it in an electric vehicle at 92% efficiency, providing a total efficiency of around 34% for an electric vehicle. Crude oil refineries operate at 75% efficiency, and gasoline distribution might cause another 6% energy loss. Since internal combustion engines are only 20% efficient, total efficiency would be around 14%. Assuming that the natural gas and oil to power our vehicles comes from the same well, we can directly compare these efficiencies, and thus conclude that electric vehicles are significantly more efficient." Which is to say, regardless of the originating source of the energy, electric motors are much more efficient at using it than an ICE is, plus the pipeline to get it to them is more efficient. So until we find something to replace the crude oil, electrics will make what's left last longer. Edited December 21, 2016 by heffergm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spen Posted December 21, 2016 Report Share Posted December 21, 2016 The biggest downsides for me is not being able to tinker with the motor, not having the pleasure of the aroma of a hot two stroke wafting through the old olfactory organ..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axulsuv Posted December 22, 2016 Report Share Posted December 22, 2016 Wait... Damn !!! I thought my Fantic was as high tech as it got !!! (in my world ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan williams Posted December 22, 2016 Report Share Posted December 22, 2016 Not to worry Axulsuv, the Fantic is still a fine piece of machinery. The point that seems to be lost here is it doesn't matter if most riders can't use 1/10th the ability of the current bikes. What drives innovation is seldom need. It's product differentiation that improves margin and the salability of a bike. And it can affect the riding of even the lowest novice once in a while. Will I significantly improve if I get a new bike? Probably not. Will it keep Beta in business if I buy a new bike? Yes, so Beta and all the other factories keep improving the product in the hope I'll shell out my paycheck. Just don't improve it out of my price range. Factories must balance the cost of innovation with the salability of the product. All bikes would be made of significant amounts of titanium and carbon fiber if the market would buy them and a 100lb bike would probably have a dramatic effect on your riding. Another point buried in this thread is the number of riders just looking for fun stuff to ride. The sport exists because of the duffers. Cherish them, they pay for the trophies and find the land and buy the bikes that keep the sport going. Growing the sport does not happen at the upper levels. Only by feeding the bottom levels and allowing the better riders to migrate up do you grow the sport. I admit I'm a lousy rider and getting worse but my money is just as important as the pro rider. More in fact because I pay full price for my bike. That's why I go out of my way if I see a terrible rider with a shiny new bike to make sure they are having fun. They will get better. They won't go pro. They are the foundation on which the sport survives. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabby Posted December 22, 2016 Report Share Posted December 22, 2016 Another point buried in this thread is the number of riders just looking for fun stuff to ride. The sport exists because of the duffers. Cherish them, they pay for the trophies and find the land and buy the bikes that keep the sport going. Growing the sport does not happen at the upper levels. Only by feeding the bottom levels and allowing the better riders to migrate up do you grow the sport. I admit I'm a lousy rider and getting worse but my money is just as important as the pro rider. More in fact because I pay full price for my bike. That's why I go out of my way if I see a terrible rider with a shiny new bike to make sure they are having fun. They will get better. They won't go pro. They are the foundation on which the sport survives. Are you reading this breagh ??? I hope so. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b40rt Posted December 22, 2016 Report Share Posted December 22, 2016 Are you reading this breagh ??? I hope so. Breagh does more to encourage new and improving riders than the vast majority, FYI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabby Posted December 22, 2016 Report Share Posted December 22, 2016 Breagh does more to encourage new and improving riders than the vast majority, FYI. You think I don't this ? He introduced me to trials. My point is, he allows himself to be talked in to setting up harder trials by a small minority. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guy53 Posted December 23, 2016 Report Share Posted December 23, 2016 I have TS and a ( not so ) Modern bike, an 03 Beta. I had some reserve before buying my modern bike because I'm an ordinary rider, and I know it, so I'll never be a participant in a modern bike competition. I really enjoy riding my Ty and it make me appreciate even more the suspension, the brake the gearing.... of the Beta. I go to TS comp. and bring both bike. What pi...s me off is when I hear '' Oh you ride a pogo stick ''. I usually keep my temper, but when it happen, I have to admit, it's hard. I don't understand why someone is not welcome at a TS '' friendly competition '' with a modern bike ( and the other way around ). You should be brilliant enough, if you owned a trial bike to know what you get into, and the organiser of the event should also be brilliant enough to advertise the type of event. Is one type of trial bike a non curable a very painful sickness ? As long as you don't alter or destroy the sections with your bike ( or your attitude ), WELCOME AND HAVE FUN. But I'm old and I might not get the idea.... Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon v8 Posted December 23, 2016 Report Share Posted December 23, 2016 Sounds like you could organise an all-bikes light trial every now and then, and get an infusion of extra members and money, which could then be used to encourage more classic trials. As someone on a modern who likes doing gentle stuff (I'm a newbie, but also have a bad knee) I'm super glad there's a couple of clubs local to me who do precisely this! There are plenty of Classic trials here in the South West my biggest problem is not clashing with other clubs. It seems to be the modern trials that are poorly supported. My trials,(Which are in slow progress of being organised) will welcome Pre65 and Twinshock only bikes,not even converted mono's or aircooled mono's will be included. I can then mark out sections which people are always asking me for,where big bikes can have a decent day out. The support for this is there,its just not a quick thing to put in place. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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