October 5, 20178 yr 7 hours ago, dadof2 said: Funny, when I mentioned observer abuse over application of non stop rule in another thread (dwindling entries) a while ago several posters did not believe this was the case. It still is and the riders doing it should be ashamed of themselves. It's the observers at BTC and the coc who should be ashamed
October 5, 20178 yr 33 minutes ago, nigel dabster said: It's the observers at BTC and the coc who should be ashamed No, its the minority of riders, at any level, that should be ashamed.
October 5, 20178 yr 20 hours ago, cabby said: Oh....gossip....do tell Only seen videos, but most riders were stopping for at least 3 seconds and getting away with it no problem. Whats the point in having a rule if you dont enforce it? Either revert back to stop, or do proper non stop, this middle ground is a joke, and is ultimately the cause of all the arguments Edited October 5, 20178 yr by faussy
October 5, 20178 yr The problem is observers have different views on how long,if at all,they will allow a stop,so the riders don't know where they stand.I accept that if you don't stop you won't get fived but a lot of sections can't be ridden non stop.Those that can trick ride well enjoy doing so and gain advantage over those that can't but risk a five through exercising a difficult skill.I feel we either revert to stop permitted or open the sections up and enforce the no stop rule,this middle ground is too vague
October 6, 20178 yr 17 hours ago, huski said: The problem is observers have different views on how long,if at all,they will allow a stop,so the riders don't know where they stand.I accept that if you don't stop you won't get fived but a lot of sections can't be ridden non stop.Those that can trick ride well enjoy doing so and gain advantage over those that can't but risk a five through exercising a difficult skill.I feel we either revert to stop permitted or open the sections up and enforce the no stop rule,this middle ground is too vague I agree with the first part, riders only get annoyed when they dont get away with one observer what they got away with with another. Consistency is key. I totally disagree withe the second part. Who says a section cant be ridden no stop, im sure if toni bou turned up he could ride it no stop. Just because there may be no one there on the day to ride it no stop doesnt mean you let them all off with stopping. Exactly the same way if nobody gets up a rock step you five them, if someone stops, five them. Whats with this nanny state that every section should be cleanable? Theres nothing i hate more than an observer watching a couple of riders through and forming the opinion that the section cant be ridden no stop so allows riders to stop, THEN!!! a rider actually comes along and rides it legitimately no stop, but gets no credit, because everyone is getting a clean. I see it alllllllll the time!!!!!! Theres a massive difference between brief pausing and proper stopping. Unfortunately trials doesnt have the luxury to turn away observers who cant tell the difference Rant over Edited October 6, 20178 yr by faussy
October 6, 20178 yr 19 hours ago, huski said: .I accept that if you don't stop you won't get fived but a lot of sections can't be ridden non stop. Then you take a one,two, three or five. Its all covered in the (real) rules.
October 7, 20178 yr On 05/10/2017 at 7:12 AM, b40rt said: No, its the minority of riders, at any level, that should be ashamed. why? The BTC rules are "flexible" within events so why should riders be ashamed? At this level there is a necessity for rules to be rules, surely @b40rt you can see this?
October 7, 20178 yr 16 hours ago, b40rt said: Then you take a one,two, three or five. Its all covered in the (real) rules. If its covered in the rules why not enforce them?
October 7, 20178 yr 36 minutes ago, nigel dabster said: If its covered in the rules why not enforce them? Because the observer should not have to argue and justify each and virtually every score. Leading to confrontation, animosity and ultimately the loss of observers. The observers can come under real pressure when a "well" known rider turns up with his cronies, "cleans" the section having stopped several times, they applaud, whoop and generally create a situation where the poor observer feels manipulated into giving an incorrect score. The solution - revert to score books and make it a rule that the rider (or spectator) does not ask the score of any rider. I also suspect the scores between the top few and the rest would be considerably closer.
October 7, 20178 yr 1 hour ago, nigel dabster said: If its covered in the rules why not enforce them? Like it or not, observers will apply an element of subjectivity to scoring, giving a rider the score they think they "deserve". Observers aren't robots.
October 7, 20178 yr 1 hour ago, nigel dabster said: why? The BTC rules are "flexible" within events so why should riders be ashamed? At this level there is a necessity for rules to be rules, surely @b40rt you can see this? Because if we countenance riders abusing observers, and intimidation by riders, the sport is debased.
October 7, 20178 yr On 05/10/2017 at 6:37 AM, nigel dabster said: It's the observers at BTC and the coc who should be ashamed Bit offensive - what's your point. We set out out btc with flowing sections and observers and riders are briefed to try and get consistency. We try and tell that it's the sections that take the marks so no need to be overzealous on the moment stop. If riders take the micky then they deserve a five lots of people put lots of hours in unpaid - all we can do is our best.
October 7, 20178 yr Strange BTC +WTC bad scoring by observers ? well heres a thought how about the ACU +FIM get a grip & supply the observers for THERE championships , then marking will be constant at each round , Dose some riders just lack any manners and have to argue any judgment ? gets back to a early post some riders need to read the RULES and understand them & what constitutes a dab or a fail
October 16, 20178 yr Bring back "stop for a 1" and most of the problems will go. However there is no way of getting rid of all the problems!!
October 17, 20178 yr On 07/10/2017 at 9:25 AM, jimmyl said: Bit offensive - what's your point. We set out out btc with flowing sections and observers and riders are briefed to try and get consistency. We try and tell that it's the sections that take the marks so no need to be overzealous on the moment stop. If riders take the micky then they deserve a five lots of people put lots of hours in unpaid - all we can do is our best. My point is that a momentary pause once allowed then becomes half a second then one then two seconds. From all the btc's that ive seen and heard if the coc stood up and said in front of riders this is a no stop trial pause and you get a 5 then everyone knows where they are, not the try to get consistency thing, bloody enforce it or go back to stop allowed. As soon as riders see an observer give a 5 for the very first pause, job done. (I ride no stop a fair bit and you soon get to know the observers that mark to the letter) Not the joke it is now, pause half asecond no stop or a second no stop rules? This is where the disputes stem from surely? Its not the unpaid effort thats what we all do for the sport, and not relevent to enforcing rules, its just if the BTC is important enough we should decide what rules were riding to, and stick to them?
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