2 hours ago, jimmyl said:

 

if you want to get the bike out of the garage every weekend knowing it is going to run exactly the same as it has for every other time you have ridden it and knowing it will stay together for several seasons and make you smile every time you give it a blast across a bit of open ground them might be worth the extra weight and engineering even if it holds you back from being able to do the best flick turn in the car park.

 

 

 

I'll finish the sentence for you - "buy a twin shock"

2 hours ago, b40rt said:

I'll finish the sentence for you - "buy a twin shock"

As the bumper sticker used to say 

my other 4rt is a tlr

8 hours ago, faussy said:

Try riding the SSDT on one, that bread and butter turns into bread and butter pudding real quick

I've ridden both in ssdt. If I could wind back time & do another ssdt I'd ride a gasser as my first choice, second choice & even my 753rd choice.

On 20/10/2017 at 1:13 PM, jimmyl said:

Maybe also the thread should read  "in real world section"

Not sure the Montesa is at any disadvantage in the majority of sections ridden by the majority of rider s especially streams and and rocky sections.

A good long rocky gulley is bread and butter for the Mont so maybe its a case of deciding what you want to do and choosing accordingly. 

if you want to get the bike out of the garage every weekend knowing it is going to run exactly the same as it has for every other time you have ridden it and knowing it will stay together for several seasons and make you smile every time you give it a blast across a bit of open ground them might be worth the extra weight and engineering even if it holds you back from being able to do the best flick turn in the car park.

 

.     

 

I actually found the weight no real problem (it was other things that made me sell it) but and its a big but the average rider does get into trouble a fair bit and this is where you notice the extra weight of the 4rt.

Interesting to compare line fior like so the beta 4t is the only similar bike. I think they are 70 kg  dry?? But struggling to find a spec.

A four stroke will always be heavier than a two stroke as it has more whirly bits. 

Only way to counter this is less metal elsewhere or lighter metal .

Less metal tends to lead to weakness , lighter metal is more expensive.

so it's all a bit of a trade off!!

if a 65kg 4rt was £12k  would they sell many ?

 

Lots of dealers struggling to get shut of the 72kg 300 at £6999 this year...so I'm guessing no.

6 hours ago, nigel dabster said:

I actually found the weight no real problem (it was other things that made me sell it) but and its a big but.... the average rider does get into trouble a fair bit and this is where you notice the extra weight of the 4rt.

You could see it at the Scott yesterday, the 4RT's (carrying more weight) dropped into every nook and cranny, jamming the front wheel and stopping the rider - whereas the 2T's just were more 'manageable' in the sections..............if that's the correct phrase

On 22/10/2017 at 1:19 PM, cangy1000 said:

Lots of dealers struggling to get shut of the 72kg 300 at £6999 this year...so I'm guessing no.

That'll be the 72Kg 300RRs that really weigh 76.5Kg.....

All trials manufacturers understate their weights, it's just that Montesa fib a bit more than the others.

Edited November 3, 20178 yr by neils on wheels

Having just got a 2017 300rr Montesa - don't care what it weighs as its awesome..

I could loose 2 stone but but cant be bothered.

Just want to ride my well engineered reliable  bike  that will last me more than 12 months

PS 

And have time to worry about what equipment I need to dry my boots

Most makes are well engineered now, not sure there is a bad one out there.

9 hours ago, nigel dabster said:

Most makes are well engineered now, not sure there is a bad one out there.

I may not really have sufficient experience to speak definitively, but I get the feeling the Montesa is the iPhone of trials bikes. High perceived value, very expensive, loyal customers, a bit behind the competition.

I shall now put on my tin hat and go and hide.

48 minutes ago, trapezeartist said:

I may not really have sufficient experience to speak definitively, but I get the feeling the Montesa is the iPhone of trials bikes. High perceived value, very expensive, loyal customers, a bit behind the competition.

But also good quality.

I have to admit that not having to do premix, and ride at altitude without any changes, would be nice

3 hours ago, trapezeartist said:

I may not really have sufficient experience to speak definitively, but I get the feeling the Montesa is the iPhone of trials bikes. High perceived value, very expensive, loyal customers, a bit behind the competition.

I shall now put on my tin hat and go and hide.

I think the correct analogy is maybe the ossa is/was the I phone.  You think you wanted one and is going to change your world but in the end just lets you down,  is unreliable  and awkward to use and an I phone is even worse !!

The 4rt is an old Nokia brick . Never been trendy or slim and sexy and doesn’t have a voice saying “ how can I help you” but if you want to go riding all day with minimum fuss or make a phone call it does what is says on the can.

( and it doesn’t do blooomin predictive text when you type on a motorbike part)

 

Edited November 4, 20178 yr by jimmyl

As someone stated on this subject previously "I would rather ride a heavy bike than push a light one"

Watching trials its easily seen that most marks are due to loss of grip or balance, not excess weight. Other than to a very few riders I would think that a few KGs difference in bike weights does not matter. Having said that if a bike is perceived as being too heavy / old fashioned it will reduce sales. 

Montesa / Honda have a problem. To achieve success at WTC a 4T almost certainly has to be OHC, whereas for all but the top few a side valve or pushrod engine would be lighter, lower C of G and have adequate power. If Honda want a light 4T engine it is possible but it will have to be substantially different from the present engine layout.