dgshannon

With Yamaha, Scorpa and Mick Andrews involved in it's development, I suspect it will be a worthwhile contribution to the 4-stroke trials market.

What makes you think that the trials engine will be based on an existing motor you know about? Could be a totally new motor. Could be a new water cooled top end grafted onto the existing TTR125 bottom end, or a variation on the SY250's bottom end.

Don't think so. The left side shift on Cota 247's first appeared on the 1974 models, to the best of my knowledge. The change from a silver to black frame color came mid year on the 1974 models for sure, which they marketed as the "Still Better". I have a 1974 "Still Better" (manufactured around April 1973) along with a full page color marketing ad featuring the bike. You will occasionally see the ads come up for sale on E-Bay.

At the root of the 2-stroke vs 4-stroke debate is the impression that a 2-stroke fires on every revolution and a 4-stroke fires on every other revolution. In principle, this is correct and a 2-stroke does in fact "fire". But, the fireing of the sparkplug is not the issue. The characteristics the engine displays depends on what is currently in the cylinder to be burned, once that sparkplug "fires". The physics of 2-stroke operation, especially in the low rpm range we often use in trials, dicates that there is not a fresh charge of air and fuel in the cylinder for every stroke, even if the sparkplug does fire. At low rpm, there is another cycle going on. Right after the engine fires off a good full charge in the cylinder, the next cycle will not be a full fresh charge. Portions of the previously burnt charge will not be fully exhausted, plus a portion will be pulled backward into the cylinder from the exhaust header. Reed valves help with this, but don't eliminate it at low rpm. This next contaminated charge, does not burn as well and will actually exhuast some unburned content. The unburned content now becomes a portion of what is drawn back into the cylinder, and improves the burn of the next engine cycle. This inconsistant content of air and fuel in the cylinder is why you 2-stroke has the characteristic pop at idle which sounds like the engine is almost misfiring. It is not "misfireing", but "mischarging" or "misburning". This inconsistancy power output, which occurs with each cycle of the engine at low rpm, does not lend itself to providing smooth linear grip in situations where traction is at a premium. The 4-stroke, even though firing on every other cycle, is much smoother and linear because it has valves which make each fresh charge of fuel and air very consistant, and has a heavier flywheel to dampen the power pulse, and carry the engine through the non-firing exhaust and intake cycle. Once you ride one of the modern 4-stroke trials bikes across something like an off-camber uphill turn you will quickly realize the advantage of the different type of power and traction, even if you don't understand it.

VERY nice bike! I would certainly be proud to have one like it.

2-Stroke or 4-Stroke, they will both eventually wear out and need replacing. The good news is that I have "an old 2 stroke" (Montesa Cota 247) that is now 30 years old and still going strong! I also have an old 4 stroke (Honda SL100) that is now 34 years old and still going strong! It is far more a matter of how well you take care of your bike than which engine variation you pick. You may have to move to Vintage somewhere along the line, but with care and maintenance, you too should be good for 30 years plus.

I'm an Irish rider, but I was born and ride in Texas. Does that count?

Maybe not, but certain brands of trials bikes can consistantly be seen being fixed and repaired, while others are obviously more dependable and manufactured to a higher quality level. You can pay the price up front, or pay the price of parts and repairs later.

I suppose beauty is always in the eye of the beholder. When I look at it, I see no water pump to fail, or get damaged. I see no hoses to worry about puncturing, leaking, or coming loose. I see no radiator, or coolant to worry with. I see no cooling fan or thermostat to worry with. And I see a gas tank that I can fill up from the pump, with no premix involved. Meanwhile, I have a relatively unique bike (only 2 in the US, so far), with a wonderful sound, great low end torque that makes traction in an almost unbelievable way, engine compression on downhills that is reminiscent of vintage bikes with a huge flywheel, and an engine so smooth that you can ride the majority of a section without touching the clutch. I have no doubt that the larger displacement Montesa, Sherco, and soon coming Scorpa (French World Round) will enhance these characteristics even further. But meanwhile, I already have mine at a fraction of the cost, and it will do everything a club level rider could need.

Various ongoing prototypes of the Tricker have been around for awhile. This one appeared a few weeks back, with some new twists such as the 360 degree steering head. There is a production version of the bike, that looks similar, if in spirit only. Scorpa now has a production bike in the same vein called the 4-Tricks http://www.scorpa.fr/francais/sy_250/4tricks.html

Vinnie, Do you have the SY175? Even owning one, some of the details as to the changes made from the 125 are sketchy. I was not sure if the 175 still had the restrictors or not. Once you dissassembled the silencer, and removed the perforated tube, were you able to modify it to pull out the restrictors, or did you just get one of the replacement tubes?

I've not ridden the 125, so I have no point of reference for comparing them. The comments come out of ignorance and the "macho" gene. Most people are dead convinced that they have to have big powerful engines, when it is really riding skill that they need! The way that the 4-stroke makes it's power and torque is a definite advantage when you are in any area of questionable traction, such as off camber turns, or sections that are too wet, or too dry. With a lot of power, you will actually have a tendancy to break the wheel loose and spin out. With less power, but greater torque at a very low RPM, the small 4-stroke actually improves your ability to get through the section clean. And, modern 4-stroke technology still allows the engine to rev to the moon when you really need it.

Yes. I received my 2005 SY175 about 2 weeks ago. Outstanding bike! After having an 02, 03, and then 04 SY250, this bike is a really neat change. Plenty of power, unbelievable traction to the ground, no pre-mix, no radiator, no water pump, no hoses, all the best CNC bits from the 250, flat skid plate, etc. People who discount the small 4-stroke are really missing out on something special.

A few toilet paper tubes and some spray paint might come out even cheaper!

I have owned a 02, 03, and 04 SY250. Whatever vibration you were feeling is not normal. That Yamaha engine is one of the smoothest packages going.

No, the SY175 is not really 175cc, yet! Only my theory, but I think you may see it continue to grow with the stroker kit that is now available from Scorpa. Hopefully, they will begin installing those at the factory soon, as they have the bore kit. To be perfectly honest, we are not yet sure of the exact displacement on the SY175. The Scorpa website has a little note about a 143cc. Bob Ginder, at B&J has been doing development on the 143cc kit and is currently in the process increasing that even further. We do know that the factory has both the 143cc and 150cc kits, and in addition have the stroker cranks. The various combinations have been tested, which I am sure most of you have seen reference to on TodoTrial. Hopefully, I will get all of the exact details soon, and will be able to update the TryalsShop website accordingly.

Yes, the TryalsShop has them and will ship them to the UK. They are made by the same company that makes their flat skidplates for the Scorpa. I got a pair last year and ran them on my SY250. They are really neat, and add a cool look to your bike. The great news is that they fit right onto my new SY175! Go ahead an order a pair from the TryalsShop online. Once you near the end of the order process, the shipping cost will be calculated, based on the method of shipment you choose, and displayed prior to your entering your credit card information. You can always back out of the order, or change the shipping method, until you arrive at something you like.

Likewise, I would have voted for the Scorpa SY250. That is until I rode my new Scorpa SY175 this weekend! Out where we practice, we have this one particular off-camber turn back up the hill which is equally slick when too dry, as it is when wet. On my SY250, I could clean it 3, maybe 4, out of 5 times. This past Saturday, on the SY175, I rode it numerous times and never dabbed. The way the bike delivers it's power, it just hooks up and makes traction in an almost unbelievable way. I am anxious to ride the Montesa and see how it does in this situation as well. I have no doubt that the 4-stroke engine will be better in these circumstances, but I am curious as to whether the added displacement (read power) will help or hinder the traction to the ground. In every circumstance, the SY175 never felt underpowered. Less power than my SY250 yes, but never underpowered. It was just smooth, linear, traction that was very predictable and user freindly.

Interesting thing... If you look at the latest TodoTrial posting on the 4T, and send it through the Spanish to English interpreter, you can pick up on their comments about the rear fender, down near the end of the article. While the language conversion is rough, you can gleen that they like the rear fender in that it is unique and adds an "aggressive" touch. Sort of like we would say that something looks like it is moving, even when it is standing still. I have to admit that the rear fender is my least favorite aspect of the bike. If you look at the Scorpa.fr website, and check the accessories catalog, you will see an optional "competition" fender for the 4T. The angle of the picture makes it tough to tell much about it, but the verbal information I was able to get my hands on reports that the bend and curvature of the edges is defferent than previously offered. While it is still not the SY250 fender, it is supposedly a more attractive piece than the original. We will have to wait and see what the SY175 actually shows up with.

Our four Texas trials clubs are the same way. At our events, everyone is comfortable to just leave everything unlocked, and laying about. I am sure it will end up biting us someday, but the relaxed atmosphere is wonderful while it lasts.

That, or they were fortunate enough to be warned ahead of time!

I was in and out of the Tryals Shop pits, at the Duluth World Round, and watched Chris and Fumitaki do this to their rear fenders. They had pieces of wood, cut to length, that they would prop up between the tire and fender to help get it to set in that position. When asked why, they said that they "liked it that way!" I guess the shape of the rear fender on the 125F influenced the new look.

The new Wonderboy? Strong candidate!

80:1 works out to 1.6 oz per gallon. The best thing to do is get a premix mixing cup, and then you don't have to do the math. There are a variety available such as the Ratio-Rite: http://www.speed-sports.com/shop/product_i...?products_id=62

It is already an excellent package, and I agree that no dratic changes were needed. Especially with the 4-stroke on the way, there is not much point in spending a lot of design time and money on something that already works great. Intersting that you don't like the silver frame. I currently have an '04, as you do, and am not fond of the blue frame. It is not the blue so much as that they did not match the color well with the other blues, already on the bike. So far, I am liking the silver, but will have to see one in person before passing final judgement.