old trials fanatic

Nice one. Great to see an un molested Sherpa in action. They are a dissapearing breed in this country.

You know not one person has put forward any alternative rules we could use. We as an ACU club used the East Midlands Centre Championship rules to define what was and what was not acceptable. As we are now an AMCA club are you proposing that an AMCA club uses ACU Championship rules to define machine eligability at AMCA events? That would be a first i suppose. The rules were deliberately worded so as not to disadvantage the majority of riders currently riding at the club but to also take into account what bikewise is happening elsewhere i.e. the increasing modernisation of Twinshocks along the lines of what happened to Pre65. Obviously you would prefer the situation to have no brakes put on it and Twinshocks to be allowed to develop into bikes that bear no resemblance to a Bultaco, Ossa, Montesa whatever. Fine if thats your point of view but as you have obviously read our rules which ones are ruining it for everybody? The eligability rules were written to try to encourage more riders to take part on a cheap but useable twinshock or home built British bike using easily available cheap parts available at bike breakers anywhere. However it's the riders of the heavily modernised bikes that are protesting Wonder why? Most clubs have elegability rules it's part of motor sport. At least then you can build a bike to a known set of rules. Are you saying thats a bad thing? Why? Everybody has the choice of shopping where they like and trials riders will ride where they like also thats called personal choice. You cant please all the people all the time and some of them none of the time. Now there isnt a Classic Club in the East Midlands ACU perhaps there are 6-7 or more riders who would like to start one more to their liking? Nothing to stop you. Wish you luck and success

Know what you mean Charlie :wall: is it all worth the hassle? beginning to wonder? Probably not really the more i think about it.

OK fair point spelling always was a problem you got me there. We are both from different camps and will never see eye to eye so no point in sniping. Back to the thread seems like the Colmore was a sucess whatever rules it has been run to which is a good thing for the sport surely. Full entries at trials run to whatever rules are what we all hope for agreed? Well done the SoA club

Good fortune to you and all the riders in the south west. I didnt want rules changed, we never had any, i just wanted some rules to stop some of the abuses of the spirit of Classic British and Twinshock Trials. I may be wrong in wanting this? Going from opinions expressed on this forum it appears so. But at least i have tried. If the Club folds due to a lack of support then so be it but at least i tried

Simon i take your comments on board but the rules did have to be introduced because i was recieving feedback about "modernised bikes" competing in class against std ones. Also because we are no longer an ACU affiliated club we could hardly continue using ACU eligability criteria could we? So i took the opportunity to, for the first time in the clubs history, introduce a set of eligability criteria. We are now an AMCA affiliated club as you well know and they do not have a handbook like the ACU. That is why the Eligability rules were introduced. Nobody is saying that you cant ride any of your bikes at our event. Could you highlight what it is that you feel would make, i am assuming you are refering in the main to your modified bike, your bike uneligable for the Twinshock which i assume you are refering to. Of course you can ride your modified bike at any club in the East Midlands Centre there are no Classic Clubs in the East Midlands Centre anymore. As for the "Classic Championship" this year that is now virtually dead in the water as it is being run as an add on to boost flagging entries at modern trials. Of the Classic Clubs in the area, which are all now AMCA, you can ride two of your bikes at our club and at Dales, in fact you can ride any of your bikes at our club as i said earlier, but you cant ride any of them at Midland Classic. Thats rules for you Simon someone will always be affected. I have heard comments like "i only fitted a set of 38mm paiolis or a gas gas front end because it was cheaper than getting the stantions rechromed" Hmm dont agree with that one or theres the old "i fitted tubless tyres and rims because they were cheaper too" dont get that one either. Whatever i am not outlawing any mods just saying if the bike anybody rides does not comply with the eligability rules they can still ride but either as a Trickshox bike or on a no championship points basis. What i am trying to achieve is to encourage more old bikes both British and Twinshock along with home brewed specials in fact almost anything to come and have an enjoyable ride. However i do think they should be able to compete like for like. I do sincerely hope to still see you and your friends at our events.

So the right to hold an opinion and freespeach doesnt apply in this case? BTW last new bike i bought was in 1985, i retired 3 years later as it was becoming a circus act and still is at some levels, not that that matters. Why should i sponsor anybody? People should pay their own way in this world. Whatever you are obviously not used to robust discussion. Thats the modern education system for you.

Been thinking about this a lot recently and i think our club is in a different situation to a lot of clubs in as much that within a 10 mile radius of Matlock there are three Classic Trials Clubs who all run 12 trials a year. What i mean is that the more radical Modernised Pre65 / British Bikes dont seem to turn up. I think they are more prevalent in areas where there are no Classic only clubs and they have to ride as a support class at modern trials. Same with the Modernised Twinshocks who have to ride with modern bikes on modern sections. Just wanted also to reassure our club members that the new rules , see www.peakclassic.co.uk , will not affect 99% of our riders but will hopefull perhaps encourage a few more to ride in the new Trickshox class and dont forget the over 300cc pre unit championship sponsored by PB Trialsport.

Good points well made Javier. The highly modernised bikes masquerading as Pre65 bikes are really modernised Twinshocks,Trickshox, and should be treated and grouped as such. Also in my book i think the laying out of sections has a lot to answer for and agree wholehartedly with your comments re "We must mark tough sections to make the best pilots loose some dabs" as they are only an entry the same as the lowly wobbler struggling on the "easy" route so the trial mus'nt be layed out with just a few in mind but the mojourity. If a bike is that modified that it has become a Trickshox bike then it MUST be consigned to the Expert route only. The other routes can then be laid out with more standard machinery and BIG bikes or less able rider taken into account. When i first started trialing back in the days when the world was in black and white we rode just one route but the severity of a trial reflected it's status. Club trials were easy. Closed to Centre were a bit harder. Open to Centre harder still and Nationals were the pinnacle of the Sport. Nowadays when you ride an event it's hard to know from the severity of the sections what "level" of event it is? This cant be right can it? The same statements were made in the day "we must take marks off Mick Andrews, Dave Thorpe, Chris Millner" etc etc but another comment was also heard "well if it's too easy for them they can always go and ride an Open to Centre or National elsewhere". Worth a thought no one rider in a trial is nore important than any other and that applies to section severity as well as machine elgability. If we are to believe the statement "it's just about getting out on your bike" then anybody riding a "Modern Twinshock" should'nt have a problem with riding in the Trickshox class on the Expert route should they ? It's like playing cricket against a team that has bigger bats This is most definately a good thread and is thought provoking which is timely because we have arrived at a crossroads and must decide the path that Classic Trials has to take. The bikes like the Sprite in question should not be considered pre65 because that is just taking the pi55 it's a Modern Twinshock at least and more accurately a Trickshox bike. I hope people, especially the ones who have contacted me, now see why we have introduced that class at our Club?

Actually thats a VERY VERY good point because it may be why so many object?

Charlie i think we both know in our heart of hearts that it HAS to come down from the governing bodies because like in the Miller Championship, just picked that one at random, it's only when there is a rule plain for all to see and that more importantly IS ENFORCED are the brakes put on some of the wilder creations. At the moment it's a free for all anything goes because none of the governing bodies will grasp the nettle and bring in an extremely long overdue ruling of what is and what is not allowed. Everybody bemoans the lack of genuine bikes but what is being done about it? It's not just Pre65 it's Twinshocks as well. One other thing you keep hearing is "it's nothing that couldnt be done at the time" perhaps this is true however generally speaking it wasnt done by the majourity at the time. With hindsight we could back engineer anything but bikes were as they were back then because mostly we knew no better. My only concern is that people just throw a sheet over their old bikes because they feel there is no point in putting them up against these modern twinshocks which is what they really are. Cant see the ACU doing anything about it can you? and so it snowballs out of control.

Well said Jon i wasnt knocking the format of your trials, i am even thinking about scrapping the awards myself, as obviously they are very sucessful. I do however think something needs to be done about the super trick creations both "pre65" and sadly also "twinshock" now appearing that ARE having an effect at many Classic trials. I dont have a definative answer but i am open to all suggestions and i just KNOW something needs to be done. I JUST WISH THE GOVERNING BODIES WOULD DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT INSTEAD OF JUST LOOKING THE OTHER WAY WHILE ROME BURNS.

Hi Javier. Problem is who is going to scrutineer all the bikes entering an event? Now i dont know about in Spain, i have only ridden at Robregordo and i know there was a scrutineering of sorts there, but nobody here wants the job of scrutineering every bike so it is left to the rider who obviously wants the most competitive bike they can get and it goes on and on. As an attempt to put the brakes on this i have introduced new rules classes and regulations at my club see www.peakclassic.co.uk look at the about you page to see new rules and regulations for this season. We have introduced a Trickshox class, we are possibly the first club to do this i dont know but i do know i have had a few phone calls already from riders protesting that their bike is now not eligable because of tubeless tyres extensive mods etc. I did point out that they could ride on a no award or points basis or they could ride in the new Trickshox class but they didnt seem very happy about that. I wonder why???? As i said earlier though unless you police it by having every bike scrutineered before the start of every trial and the rider instructed as to which class to ride in, assuming there is a class suitable, or ride on no award basis then you cant do ANYTHING about it! You also have to accept that some people will have a mardy and go home or just not come to your events then the club folds due to lack of support. At the end of the day if left unchecked it will probably mean the end of the sport as we know it but what else can you do? Jon V8 makes the point let anybody ride and it's no problem as they dont give out any awards anyway. It's a valid point but doesnt seem to have that competition factor that most look for. Be interresting to read the comments to this one

It does look nice although a bit trim around the waist if you know what i mean ? I remember the TR34 had an ally rear subframe that was a bit delicate to say the least. Be interresting to read Woodys reply. As an aside this bike and ones like it are the reason i introduced the Trickshox class to our club as hardly fair to put it up against a std Bultaco, Montesa, Ossa etc. Nice looking bike though

At the end of the day though is that really a bad thing?

I've got an OSSA TR77 that i'm doing up at the moment and it's a 250. Got no carb on it but i have a Bing off a 350 TR77 so i was going to fit that. Just wondering if anybody knew the jet sizes for the 250 as i assume they are possibly smaller than the ones for the 350 ? also the carb is leaking petrol. Now i thought it was flooding but after stripping and turning upside down the float needle seems to be sealing ok when i blow through the fuel pipe and there doesnt seem to be any fuel in the float which would normally indicate a punctured float. The float needle valve doesnt seem to be worn either. So only other thing i can think of is the gasket for the float bowl. Are these known to be problematic? All helpful suggestions gratefully received

Assuming thats a late one then you got a bargain there. Well worth the fuel and entry fee.

nice one John

Remember that was to an old set of rules. Much prefer the current rules. Looking forward to seeing some videos from this years event

As an additional point the last time i worked out what the 2 day Pre 65 cost well that came to