woody

Charlie - I don't really think there were any specific mods of the kind you mention that were done to these bikes at the time. The works guys were always experimenting with stuff but those are the changes that probably found their way onto later models, but the later models were different bikes again. Settings/geometry from later bikes don't necessarily work on an older model. Why do you want to mod it (that's a genuine question, not a 'you shouldn't do it' statement) The bike is just as competitive as the Bults and Ossas of that era. Which one you rode was personal preference as they could all win events straight from the crate. There was nothing else to touch the Spanish three really until a few years later on. If you modify it you may not be able to compete against same era bikes - don't know what your rules are. If you want to make it more competitve, you may as well go for a later twinshock like the 330 (oooh yes please) as no matter what you do to the 247 the later bikes will destroy it performance wise - unless you change it beyond all recognition. I've been down this train of thought with my MAR. In the UK the national twinshock series is full of Fantics, TLR Hondas etc. My 74 MAR is by far the oldest bike that turns out on a regular basis. There is no pre75 class, twinshock is anything after 1965 and single route sections. If the sections get tough the MAR is outgunned. I've tried to think of ways of making it more competitive against the later bikes, but without radcally altering the chassis, re-engineering the clutch and fitting different wheels for better brakes it will never have the feel of the latest twinshocks. It just wasn't worth it and I don't have the skills anyway so I am now getting a Majesty ready for the 05 series. One day I might have another think about modernising the MAR but only because I have enough scraggy bits lying around that are in such a condition already I'm not going to ruin anything by trying. If I only had one MAR, I'd leave the mods to just personal changes like footrest position. If I were you with that 247, I'd rebuild it like the one in the picture that HondaRS posted. That is a stunning bike. If you could find a second one however, then go for it...

The auction for the Seeley was withdrawn before its end date. You will need to search under Motorcycles - Completed items - Seeley Or just search from home page under the item number which is 4510018278

There is a very nice looking Seeley on ebay at the moment and the bidding is just about to start launching skywards by the look of it (and I mean nice in appearance, not condition as that is hard to tell from photos) What you can see from the photos is the Ossa forks and front wheel....... Not quite original spec. then

Sorry Charlie - I can't help you out with the science of it. It baffles me too and I have no idea how it works the way it does. By all reaonable thinking, releasing the compression should make it go quicker you would have thought. If I pulled in the valve lifter on my 426 Yam whilst rolling down a hill in gear, throttle off, I am pretty sure it would accelerate. I not going to try it though as valves are expensive..... PS - it is a must have accessory for the discerning Spanish 70s classic owner. Period fitment..... or at least in the UK it was. It was definitely the only way to stop the buggers

Munch - it's still light outside, why aren't you still out on it. Or are you hiding from Dabster.....

It provides very effective engine braking when the engine is running. It will stall the engine on anything up to say three quarters throttle. Over that the engine will carry on running. Consequently, as long as the clutch lever is not pulled in.... and the ground offers enough traction it becomes a very effective rear brake on downhills. By slowing the engine down it also slows the back wheel, giving the braking effect. Once you get the feel for this you can use it as a brake without stalling the engine, juggling it on and off during a decent. It works pretty well. Of course, if the ground is too sippery to offer much traction, the decompressor will just stall the engine, as it would if the bike were in neutral, as the rear wheel has nothing to drive against to keep the engine turning. When I used to use my Ossa MAR on the road regularly back in the 70s, hooning around with my mates on their road bikes, not to mention the odd trip to school, in the absence of efective brakes the decompressor made a very good substitute. Makes a hell of a noise too if pulled in at speed. For those familiar with Monty Python, it must sound like Mr Creosote farting. Pedestrians would leap out of their skins when the decompressor was pulled at 50 - 60mph for some hard braking. Bus queues were always a good source of amusement too. If you brake using the clutch/brake method, the 'deek' is no use to you but if you use the engine it can be a very useful tool indeed. Also audibly warns other riders inspecting the section to get out of the way - Ossa with no brakes approaching rapidly... Oh yes - I almost forgot. That really is a cracking Monty. Beautiful looking bike - almost as nice as a MAR

Having owned a 400 Yam you are correct BUT remember how much more power the Yamaha has than the KTM - try comparing like for like - a 250 2st - say a CR Honda - this has a lot less traction than a 400 Yam - watch the start of a MX race - the 4strokes power away first. In addition the Yam can be made more user friendly by addition of a flywheel weight. The 200 KTM is a very soft engine by comparisson. I understand what you're saying there but the terrain and grip level at the start straight of a motocross track which is a flat out blast, differs a lot from the snotty, slippy going in a typical woods/forest based enduro, where careful throttle control is needed. Modern high revving short-stroke enduro/motox motors need good riders to overcome their willingness to break traction in those conditions. An XR400 and even an XR650 will be more forgiving powerwise in those conditions than a 400/426 Yam or CRF450 Honda, due to the engine characteristics. My mates 300 KTM 2 stroke, which is more on a par with the 426 power output, is still more forgiving and grips easier than my Yam as it is again quite soft lower down the revs. I just think, from my experience, that there is no definitive 2 stroke is better than 4 stroke, or vice-versa, in terms of the ability to grip, it's more down to how the engine delivers the power. And after the last 2 events I'm definitely on the lookout for a 2 stroke enduro...

Well, I haven't anything scientific to add to this but from my trials and enduro experience I have the following observations. A 2 stroke 200 KTM enduro will find grip and is a lot less prone to spinning up the back wheel than a 4 stroke 426 Yam. The KTM delivers its power in such a way that there is no instant reaction to the throttle low down in the rev range, the power is introduced gently. The 426 Yam on the other hand (which I have) delivers instant torque and power at the touch of the throttle and will spin up very easily if you aren't careful with the throttle - even if pulling a higher gear. They just react straight away. Out of the two, the KTM is easier to ride and finds grip more naturally. In trials, from participating in classic events which throw 2 and 4 strokes together, it is noticeable that the bigger Brit thumpers (which I am sure only fire once every 5 yards....) will find grip - in some conditions - more naturally than the 2 strokes. I am sure this is down to the way the power is delivered as the Brit thumpers deliver the power in a completely different manner from the 426 Yam. It is slower and less aggressive and so has a tendency to spin up less easily. The 2 strokes deliver the power a bit quicker from lower revs, so there is more chance of breaking traction. Unless it is a bog standard Pre65 2 stroke where you will wait about a week for any reaction to the throttle... they grip quite well.... I think whether it is 2 or 4 stroke the ability to grip is down to the way the engine delivers the power and how also well the rear suspension is working as that too can make a difference. Of course, as is sod's law, just to contrdict the suspension set-up theory I have regularly seen a rider on a rigid Bantam - so there is no rear suspension at all - drive up muddy banks like they are tarmac with no trouble at all, when other machines are spinning and struggling. Must be due to the fact that it hasn't enough power to spin the wheel on ice wearing a slick....

And there were also a couple of the black beta techno Dougie replicas imported directly around here when they came out. How did they go in the Midlands mud? let me think for a minute. Oh Yes, I remember. In the words of the old Dead or Alive record; You spin me right round baby right round..... Or as Murray Walker used to say SPIN SPIN SPIN

You're thinking back too far. The last couple of years has seen an improvement and there have been some good trials. One or two could still be a bit stiffer but that is the problem if it is a combined sidecar / classic round. However, no-one cleaned any of the trials. As you know Nigel Birkett rode them this year and if he didn't clean any they can't be too bad. The only one I am sceptical of for 2005 is the Doncaster Cup as that has been far too easy in the past on more than one occassion. Hopefully they will have taken notice and improved the standard this time. The Otter Vale round in October can also be a bit easy I'm told but it is one I've never done. Out of the remainer though you have Bootle, Welsh Trophy, Lancs County, Torridge, Hillsborough, all of which are good trials. New for this year are the Sutton Falcons, which should be good, and the Cambourne and Redruth which I assume Colin Dommett will have a hand in, so that too should be good.

Mark - the first round is in February as far as I know - the Mansell. link below http://www.trialscentral.com/cms/showartic...p?articleID=790 Also, this is the link to 2005 calender which shows other rounds http://www.trialscentral.com/cms/showartic...p?articleID=812 You will need proof of age to get an age related plate but Yamaha UK are usually very helpful in this respect and will send you confirmation. If it is a genuine UK bike they will do it free of charge, if it was an import they charge -

For the Classic series next year the power of a TY175 would actually be ok. There was only one trial where power could offer an advantage through mud and up big climbs - Colchester - but it isn't in next year. The TY would still cope there as you just use the lower gears and scream it till your ears bleed. You just have to be more precise as there is less margin for error on those types of sections with the smaller engine, as if you're in a big gear you can't back off and go again if you get in a mess. A real shame this round is omitted as there were some BIG sections where you could really get on the throttle stop. With the other rounds there aren't really any events where power will be an issue. Most are technical sections rather than power sappers so suspension set up is more important than power, along with the ability to clutch/brake where necessary. Some rounds, like Bootle, Torridge etc. may have just one or two sections where power may give an advantage but these are the exception rather than the rule and still nothing that the TY can't cope with. Vitually all of the bikes are standard in reality. Nigel Birkett's Suzuki is indeed his 70s works bike, with the exception of the frame, so it is a one-off and nothing like a regular Beamish. The only bikes to come in for some modification are generally TLR250s as they aren't that good as standard and need a few tweaks (they're not bad, before I upset all TLR owners, just need a few tweaks to improve a few areas) All of the other marques are just ridden as they are. Again, most important thing is that the suspension/clutch/brakes work correctly. It isn't like Pre65 where you have to spend thousands to make a bike work to be competitve with others that have done it. Most later twinshocks can't be improved on that much that it will give anyone a significant advantage, so it isn't as costly as Pre65 to be competitve and you can still get decent bikes for reasonable outlay. If you don't buy the bike you are going to look at, get in touch with me and I can put you in touch with someone who has a few TY175s for sale, as well as an immaculate Whitehawk 200 which has done virtually nothing from new if you wanted to stretch that far. Something unique for the series - no-one else is riding one. It still has the 'whiskers' on the original tyres I think. I've never ridden one though so can't tell you what they go like. As HondRS says, given your preference for Yams, a 250/320 Majesty is worth considering although the 320s can be a handful - depends how they've been tuned. Finding a good one is also a problem. Whichever bike you decide upon, you should enjoy the series as it is starting to pick up again these last couple of years. As long as you're not expecting a trail ride though as some can offer a good challenge. Nothing silly (some may argue that about Colchester....) just tradtional type sections, but remember it is a national championship. The Mansell is on the easier side compared to some others. As long as the bike functions as it should it will be ok. Go into it on something with plank like suspension and no brakes and you will struggle.

make that 100% Juan is the older brother. Both brilliant riders and all rounders. Juan also has a liking for classic trials bikes and can ride those a bit too.

Yes, I can understand him being reluctant to tell what he's done if he's spent a long time doing R & D on it. First thing is to get the bike running with the standard motor and take it from there. Don't want to do anything that means altering the standard frame on the Seeley.

Definitely be interested to talk to him if you have a number to find out what he's done to convert to 250 - be even nicer if it would go out to 270 or 280 or so - just to get a bit more punch and torque out of the motor. If it can be done with tiger cubs..... I'm saying this and I haven't even tried the stock bike for power yet, it might be perfectly ok - but I am a touch over 16 stone so then again....

Yes, his are the contact details I have misplaced. When I've found them I can ask him how it was done. I've never ridden a Seeley so don't know what to expect when I get it built but even if I don't like it to ride, I just love the look of them. Like you say, they were built as a smaller version of the 360 which was a nice looking bike - almost as nice as an Ossa MAR.... One more thing I'm not sure about. I thought engines in the TLR200 and the RS200 (which is the motor used in the Seeley) were different units. Are they the same unit then, do you know?

OK - Thanks for that. Things begining to look a little clearer now. I see what you mean about the fins on the RS250. I noticed it but thought it was a shadow. I've since found a picture of the RS200 and see one or two differences between the two. Just didn't realise they did the RS250 as a production bike. So now I see you know a bit about Hondas..... Any idea how an RS200 motor has been converted to 250cc using a TLR barrel. I know of someone who has done it but at the moment can't find their contact details to find out how. Just wondered if you knew. I'm in the process of getting a Seeley and if I can get hold of a spare engine I'd like to convert it to 250.

I'm really confused with these bikes now. Not trying to be clever here or make a point, just genuinely confused. I thought the first pic was of a TLR250 because I didn't realise they did a version of it in Japan called the RS250, but the second picture is an RS200 isn't it, not a 250. I have seen pictures of the Japan only RS250 which were ridden in the SSDT around 1980 and they were nothing like the picture above of the TLR type RS250, or the RS200. They were almost a direct copy of the 360 looks wise. That's why I didn't think you'd posted a picture of it. Just to reiterate, I'm not trying to be clever here, just genuinely confused now... Slapshot 3 - As regards wheel building it's difficult to give a price as it depends on type of spokes etc. which affects cost. If you look at Central Wheel Components website, they have all prices on there so it's a reasonable guide. They also have rim prices too. Don't have a URL but you can find them on a search easy enough. As an example, it cost me about

I can see the pic of a nice TLR250 but where is the pic of the RS250

It's not so bad to do, just a bit time-consuming that's all. Manual covers it well, but basically; Loosen the top nut of each leg whilst the leg is still in the bike but undo the top yolk pinch bolts before trying to loosen. Put the leg in a vice or whatever to hold it. Loosen the allen bolt in the bottom of the fork leg that holds the damper rod in place. Don't remove it at this stage or oil will pour out, just crack the thread. Use an air wrench if you have one to do this but if not it should undo ok. The compressed spring should stop the damper rod turning. To get an allen key into the allen head you will need to screw the damper adjustment screw right in otherwise the allen key won't fit properly into the allen bolt head. Count the number of turns you screw the adjuster in so you can reset it afterwards. Once you've cracked the allen bolt, put the leg vertically in the vice (remember it's still full of oil at this stage) unscrew the top nut from the stanchion. The stanchion can then be pulled down showing the damper rod and spring. The top nut is still attached to the damper rod at this stage so hold the locknut that is underneath the top nut, you'll need to pull the spacer and spring down to see it, then unscrew and remove the top nut, followed by the spacer and spring. Make sure you note the order of these components as they come off for reassembly. You can now drain the oil by pouring it out of the stanchion. You'll also have to pump the stanchion and also the damper rod (not both at the same time) to remove all or at least most of the oil. Then remove the allen bolt from the bottom of the leg. Prise up the dust seal out of the leg and remove the circlip (I am pretty sure there is one) that holds the seal in. You then have to clamp the leg in the vice and pull hard and sharply on the stanchion to yank it out of the leg. At this stage only the tight fit of the bush is holding the stanchion in the leg. It may take a few good pulls but it will come out (cue the inuendos) Expect to fly backwards accross your garage when it does so make sure you have an clear path for your journey just in case..... When the stanchion comes out it will have the seal, bush and a spacer on it and it will also spew a bit more oil out. Note their order. You may as well put new bushes in whilst you're doing the seals. Reassemble the new bush and seal on the leg with the spacer and push the stanchion back into the leg. You should coat the seal with grease as per the manual. You will need to drift the seal and bush into the leg until they are seated correctly. You can't just push them in. There is a special tool but you can improvise. I use an old tube spanner large enough to slide over the stanchion. Whatever you use be careful not to damage the seal. Replace the damper rod allen bolt and ensure it is properly tightened. Then follow the procedure for filling with oil. Leave a final gap of 95mm from oil to top of stanchion. Refit the spring, spacer and top nut. Readjust damper adjustment screw and job done. Please note that this is from memory and just to give you an idea of the procedure. It's not the definitive procedure and I may have overlooked something as it's been a while since I did the job. Give yourself a couple of hours as it's the first time you've done it. It's not too hard, just a bit time consuming but follow the manual and you will be ok.

No problem with stainless spokes. My MAR wheels were rebuilt about 12 years ago with stainless spokes and I have never had one break or even needed to tighten one - On a bike that has had some abuse and hard riding over that period and they also still look new.

PeteJ - do you know what you're letting yourself in for..?? You'll cry tears of blood and Angels will weep before you're finished... Have your frame and swingarm powder coated by a reputable firm as it will provide a durable quality finish. They will blast it as part of the job. Fork legs/yolks just need to be polished by a professional as they are able to remove all of the scratches and imperfections and get the mirror look, as long as there are no deep gouges of course. Or you could do it yourself with wet and dry and solvol but I wouldn't recomend it for your sanity and although you'd get a good shine you'd never get the deep mirror look. I bought a polishing kit once and did a Bultaco but bloody hell, what a mess. The whole garage looked like it had been sprayed with soot and I looked like a miner - never again. Only way to tidy up hubs really well is to strip the wheels and have the hubs and brake plates powder coated too. Make sure the bearing housings and brake surfaces are properly masked. If they powder coat the inside of the drum it is an everlasting nightmare to remove it - trust me, I know. You then need to rebuild the wheels with stainless spokes. New rims or polish or anodise the old ones. It's a lot of time and effort and is also very costly. I rebuilt my Ossa years ago and did a similar job to Booma's Honda in terms of finish but it doesn't stay looking like that for long if you ride it regularly for any length of time, which I did. Wouldn,t stop me from doing it again though (what am I saying?) as it is worth it when it is first done - you only have to look at Booma's to see that. Powder coaters and polisher etc. you will find in your local yellow pages or classic bike mags. If you want to sell your tl200E instead of subjecting yourself to this torture, send me a message as I've been looking for one to ride in the twinshock series next year.

Yep, the bike comes with non-adjustable ignition/fuel mapping and you have to buy the adjustable kit. Can't really see why it should be a problem though as according to feedback the standard set-up will have more performance than all but top-notch riders can exploit so who needs it?

There are 4 I think, don't know exactly where in the inlet/exhaust they are, which if removed turn it into a rocket apparently