woody

No chance. I like them both but the MAR edges it..... Mick has the best of both, a MAR chassis with a 350 Gripper motor that his friends in Spain have built. Probably won't see it over here but I'll bet it is one well sorted bike

Isn't that MAR one of the prettiest trials bikes ever made

It's an RS200. There are several aftermarket tank/seat combinations available for them in Japan so they don't all look the same. Motor is basically the same as the Seeley except the Seeley had some tweaks (depends on who you talk to as to how many....) one of which was to over bore it to 66mm which gives 198cc as opposed to the 194cc of the RS200. The air intake hose etc. on the Seeley is there. just hidden by the tank/seat unit. Re; the TLR 250'S they have coming in, I wonder if they will be 'proper' TLR's or those perimiter framed monoshock things which have a completely different engine too. Looked at one at an autojumble yesterday and the engine is pretty big on those with bits stuck on all over the place.

Yes I know, he's a naughty boy fitting that modern tackle. Had a go on it up at Bootle and it rides pretty well.... It still had the Honda front end fitted when they were winding me up though

I've been trying to salvage some reasoning out of the price.........

I think you may find it has changed. When I wanted seat unit decals for the 05 pro I was told not available, the seat unit is colour coded so you have to buy the complete unit at

Definitely won't be for you if you're thinking of doing one on a trials bike, but, borrow a 200 KTM to do one on and you find yourself hooked. Saying they are a long motocross is oversimplifying it a bit. Tue, it is a race directly against other riders, but the course is nothing like a motocross track. Part of it may include a motocross track if there is one on the land used but it will make up about 5% of the overall course. The rest of the track can involve forest tracks, tight woodland tracks, streams, bogs, open fields, rocks, etc etc. You have to read the land a lot more than a motocross track and pick lines - this is why trials riders adapt pretty well as they are used to reading sections and picking a line. If it is Chiltern Hills club you are talking about I have heard they put on pretty good events. If you're not riding a trial go and have a look and you can see what it's all about

I'd agree with that as it's a pretty good synopsis of what I've found. Very nice to ride on rocky terrain due to superb suspension and steering and for whatever the reason, it does feel 'planted'. On cambers and greasy surfaces it grips well and can pull higher gear/lower revs dues to excellent torque and find grip well. I'd agree that in really thick, deep mud a 2-stroke in 4th gear flat out will probably clear the tyre and burn through to find grip better than the 4RT but there aren't many sections like that overall, even in our poxy muddy midlands trials. So a trial like the Colmore with really big snotty climbs may favour the 2-stroke - but it never used to bother Saunders on the RTL......... I've ridden it in 2 trials and loved it and find it easy to ride. I've also lowered the tickover so I can ride it on the throttle, old-fashioned style when I want and it really is excellent at allowing you to just trickle along and pick a path without slipping the bloody clutch everywhere. No flat spots, no power bands, just perfectly linear power delivery all the way through. Nice. It's just a bit of trial and error working out how low you can go with the tickover before it won't start... Larger back sprocket also fitted. I have to say that it puts a smile on my face and I feel it has that undefinable thing - character. I've even taken to having little rides around the garden on it, just to hear it. Restrictors are all in and it has enough go for me - haven't found it lacking yet. It is also nice to ride on the road, engine doesn't hunt or detonate and it is almost comfortable to sit on/in. I realise they aren't to everyone's taste and I'd never say they are the best thing out there - each to there own. You need to try one on varied and proper sections to evaluate whether you like them, not try one around the carpark or listen to the crap such as 'they've got no power cos Lampkin can't clear 8 foot vertical steps' to make an assessment. I tried two at two seperate trials over a weekend and had sold the 5 week, 3 trials old 280 pro and bought one within a week and I'm very happy with it. One thing that hacks me off though. They've got digital ignition, fuel injection, whatever and the speedo looks like it has come out of the 349 parts bin with a cable down to the front wheel that is just begging to snag a branch. Why couldn't they fit a digital one? Small point I know but... I can live with it though...

Generally a 3 hour cross country race taking in all sorts of terrain with a lap that can be between 3 and 15 miles, depending where it is. Bikes can be enduro, motocross, trail and if you're daft enough, a normal trials bike but not recommended, for either rider or bike. Once saw someone competing on a GasGas TXT...... why......?? Classes are for 4-stroke, 2-stroke up to 175cc and over 175cc, over 40, expert, clubman, novice, trail, essentially something for anyone. Principle is simple - Go tear-arsing off the start line grouped in your individual classes, race for the full 3 hours and whoever comes in first wins overall and whoever comes in first in class wins their class. They are truly great fun and a great challenge, physically and technically and when you've finished you know you've done an event - especially by Tuesday. Enduros are different in that you race against the clock as opposed to racing directly with other riders. You set off in groups of three or four, every minute. Course may consists of say 4 stages and you are given so long to complete each stage. If you are late reaching a stage it will cost you a tiime penalty. Somewhere around the course will also be a special test where you are timed over a short section. These are usually about 5 to 10 minutes long and are used to sort out a winner. Your time is denoted in seconds. If you have kept on time in the stages and not incurred time penalties you are 'clean' on time overall. If more than one rider is clean on time the winner is whoever had the fastest special test time. If you have incurred time penalties on the stages, this time is added to your special test time. You are supposed to use enduro or trail bikes only for these events but in recent years motocross bikes have been allowed too. That is a pretty high level description but it should give you an idea. I'm riding in the Wirrall Hare and Hounds on Sunday and can't wait. A 30 minute lap over some superb terrain is promised so should be excellent event.

Thanks for that, if it is just mounting brackets for parts, ancilaries etc. that are different that's ok. Any idea if they are the same size though or is the 200 smaller overall? Didin't realise the wheels/brakes were different in 200 and 250, thought they were the same. Explains why the 200 wheel I fitted in my Ossa some time ago was no better than the Ossa brake. Couldn't understand at the time why Barry Roads and Clint Legget were able to demonstrate stoppies to me on there 250s whilst mine had no bite at all. That would explain it then as the 200 wheel I had fitted certainly had no bite. How did you manage to get hold of a 250 motor you lucky sod...

Anyone know whether the frames of the TLR200 and the TLR250 are the same. If not what the differences are - not in minute detail, just roughly. They look the same from pictures but obviously they don't reveal everything and I don't know if the 250 is physically bigger than the 200 frame. I'm guessing that the engines would swap straight over regardless though, as the crankshaft based engine mounts to the frame are the same on nearly all XR, XL, XLR, TL Hondas. Any help appreciated if you know but no wild speculation please.....

Mark, it does have a bush fitted but it is ok, it is the lobes which are worn on mine. No I'm not Woody Hole, I'm Dave Wood from Brum and unfortunately don't possess half of his trials riding ability either.... Regards 200 cams, a friend has a 200 engine out of a Paris-Dakar style Honda 200 with electric start. The cam on this has a proper bearing on it, not a bush and the electrics are on the crank not the cam so there are some differences on the 200 engines to watch out for. Thanks Martin, that's the name I was trying to remember. Not sure how much stuff he has but I've heard he isn't prone to letting any of it go. I've managed to find someone else on the IOM who also has a Seeley and who knows John, so he is going to ask a few questions for me. From what I've been told though, there was very little in the way of mechanical components in what he bought so not too hopeful but you never know. I've heard there are about 10 Seeleys on the IOM and John Quaye has 6 of them.

It's not a Seeley frame TLR200 frame, maybe RS200 swingarm, XL185 engine and forks. Tank/seat unit could possibly be one of the non-standard RS200 items that can be bought in Japan or as RS says, maybe a Golner one.

Where do you get hold of a parts microfiche? Are they readily available or did you 'acquire' one. I may need to source some parts for different Hondas and microfische with which to cross-reference parts would be a big help if they're available. Wiseco do list oversize pistons for the 200 engines such as XR and XL - up to 67mm - but their catalogue doesn't list the TLR amongst them.

That really was a cracking trial and the South Birmingham team deserve a big pat on the back. To set 20 sections of such a challenging and varied nature and then alter or reverse most of them for the second lap to provide even further variation was a considerable achievement. All the more so when the land has been used before which can make it difficult to see beyond the easy option of previously used sections. The sections were dual route too, so it had to work on both courses. The new sections and the variations on those previously used went down very well with the group I was riding around with and I only heard positive comments. With the promise of more land being opened up in the future, there is the potential of it being even better next time. Well done Tim, Steve and Co. Excellent days riding.

Gripper, if you post a list of the parts you need I'll see if I can give you any idea where you might get them as I've a had to source stuff over the years for my Ossas, although mainly MAR as opposed to Gripper. You have to accept though that parts are hard to find for these bikes so depending on what you need you may struggle. Second hand stuff for the parts that are usually missing or broken is virtually non-existent in the UK. Not much is reproduced and if it is, such as the airbox it is probably going to be expensive, as are N.O.S parts if you can find them. As HondaRS says, it is possible that you may be able to source some parts in Spain but if you do they aren't going to be cheap. Ideally you need to be able to speak/write Spanish or know someone that does as most of the specialists out there aren't English speakers. Most are listed on the website I mentioned in your other post. I hope you're successful searching for parts as being an Ossa fan, it's always nice to see another on up and running, but you haven't chosen the easiest bike to get parts for. Not impossible but definitely not easy.

Anyone know whether it is possible to buy a new camshaft for the Seeley Honda? Mine has 'flats' on the tips of the lobes so is no good. I know it is possible to get it reprofiled but I'd rather get a new one if possible. As I understand it the profile is different on the Seeley from XLI85 and other engines so although it is possible to fit another cam, it may mess up the slow running of the engine. I will try the usual sources such as Gordon Farley, David Silver etc. next week, but just wondered if anyone may know of a specific source, or even whether they are, or were ever available. If not I'll have to get it reprofiled. In which case does anyone know the number of Joy Cams - can't find it anywhere myself. Also, does anyone know of a piston that will fit and where to get it from. I've looked on the Wiseco site and can see that there are pistons available for bikes with the same bore/stroke such as oversize pistons for ATC200, XL200, XR200 etc. but not sure about the compression ration of any of these. I have heard of a TLR200 piston being used so that is an option. Any help will be appreciated.

Haven't got Mick's number but I can tell you that he hasn't got any ossa parts at all so he won't be able to help you in that way. Perhaps whoever told you thinks he can get them from Spain or something as he has friends/contacts out there but no idea if he does that at all. If it is still the rings you are after have you tried Jeff Bungay as I know when he bought up most of Quinn's remaining stock a few years ago I'm sure there were piston rings amongst it. I remember seeing them when I went to Quinn's before that and I had some 350 rings from him. If any were included in what Jeff bought I can't imagine he sold them all. Keith Lynas is very knowlegeable on Ossas and has a very good parts stock although it is mainly motocross orientated.

Just spoke to Tim Fairbrother to ask for a ride in the trial on Sunday as the enduro I was riding in has been cancelled. He said rider lists went out yesterday so you should have it by tomorrow.

Thanks Barcota. I'll let it bed in a bit more before I do anything seeing as its only got one trial on the clock so far, see if that softens it off a bit. If not I'll try the same as you and hope for the same results.

I know what you mean. I bought a red '05 280 Pro and wanted to change it to blue - don't ask. I asked my local trader to price up the plastics and decals. GasGas stated that the seat unit was colour coded on the 05 bike and a new one in blue would be needed at

I've had a few TYZs and they'll do 80mph and a bit on standard gearing. The Ossa MAR I had almost new back in the 70s would do 75mph absolutely flat. It would blow my 3 mates and their CB200 Hondas into the weeds in a drag race up to about 50 but then the long drop from 4th to 5th would kill the acceleration and they'd go past. It would keep up with my other mates CB400F to about 40mph too. It was great to go to school on after the Sherpa T I had was flat out at about 55mph. 320 Armstrong was pretty quick too although never actually clocked that to see what it would do. Worst bike I ever had on the road was my 98 315 which sounded as though it was going to detonate to pieces on the road around the SSDT. It was awful.

Spot on Ishy, the FIM desire to ban 2-strokes from world championship trials is not a worldwide governmental policy to ban 2-strokes outright. Neither can the FIM instruct the individual motorcycle governing bodies in each country to ban 2-strokes from competition outright. In the UK, the AMCA in particular would just raise 2 fingers I feel. As I understand things, the attempts to ban 2-strokes in California, who seem to be at the forefront of the anti-stroker brigade, has stalled thankfully. I also can't see a company such as Yamaha investing as heavily as they have in producing new alloy framed YZ125 and 250 2-stroke motocross bikes if an outright worldwide governmental ban was looming. I'm sure they know more than we do. Long may we continue to enjoy our sport on a mix of different brands and engine types. A lot of what makes competing so interesting and enjoyable is seeing the different bikes that everyone chooses to ride, particularly home-brew specials and the wonderful variety of classics around these days

I know this has been touched on in another post but it didn't really say what the problem was or what it is that the 315 master cylinder improves. I've just bought a 4RT and the only 'problem' with the clutch is that the action is very sudden. It comes in with a bit of a bang - on/off. Not very soft or progressive. Could be because it's new and may wear in, don't know. The lever action, biting point and weight of lever action are all fine. Anyone else think the clutch bite is a bit sudden/sharp and is this what the 315 cylinder mod eases? Anyone any opinions/experience? Or maybe it's because I've got to learn how to use a clutch again...

Interesting to see the different opinions on rear tyres. We've used IRC rears in the Midlands for 7 or 8 years now. Mick Andrews told us to try them when they first appeared. I figured if they are good enough for him..... No-one else would use them as they were considered odd-ball, or many people just hadn't heard about them. Others just said 'wouldn't use those. they're crap'. I remember buying a '98 315 from BVM when they came out in late '97 and trying to haggle with Mr Kemp for a spare tyre. He said what do you want and I said IRC. He said we don't have those things. I asked why and he said because Steve Saunders says they're crap.... I doubt Steve said any such thing but that was what was thought of them generally back then. Things have changed a bit now though, they're quite common. My personal opinion is that they are a far better tyre in mud than a Michelin. I've no experience of a Dunlop as I have never used one - they wear out too quick. On rocks I would say the IRC is the equal of anything else, if any of them have an advantage over each other it is probably too close to worry about. Where the IRC really scores though is its wear rate. They are incredibly durable. I had one on my TYZ for the Lakes 2 day last year which subsequently did a good few club and centre trials and the edge is hardly worn. Recently bought a new GasGas and rode it with the Michelin and after only 3 muddy club trials it had noticeably more wear than the IRC. And even when the IRC loses its edge, somehow they continue to find grip in mud like nothing else. OAS - can't see how you figure they don't last on rocks. It is by far the best at surviving rocks and road use. I have started the SSDT with a used one and it has lasted all week, not shedded any knobbles and not needed to be turned. A new Michelin or Dunlop would be gone after a couple of days. This is just a personal opinion and I'm not the type to say - I use it so it is the best. It's just an opinion based on the experience I have from using Michelin and IRC tyres in the past. I've just sold the GasGas and the TYZ and bought a 4RT. An IRC went straight on before it even turned a wheel.