woody

Oh yes - Not only are some of the girls capable of putting in a decent score in the six days - I was going to say ride but that opens up all sorts of inuendo - they've aquitted themselves pretty well on this thread too. Unlike some blokes, Katy read and understood the original post in the context it was intended, ie; encouraging MORE girls to ride, she didn't take it as demeaning to women. However, far be it from me to stop a good sexist slanging match

Oh dear....... I see a whole new thread on this. It is a very long one on the end of the needle that is stitching Ishy back together after the women have torn him to pieces....

Interesting to read that Dabster, thanks. I know this is off thread now, which I don't approve of, but sod it, everyone else does it and the Mony 4T 'where are they' saga has been done to death. Reason I asked is because I've just bought one in bits to maybe do the ACU Classic on next year. No idea how competitive they are or what they ride like but I've always liked the look of them, as they are cute, so wanted one anyway, even if it is just to look at if it turns out not to be competitive. The motor isn't the TL, it is a purpose built trials motor from Honda Racing, probably based on the XR range. It was used in Honda's own RS200 bike. I think you can get kits to take them to 250. Suspension can be tweaked or altered at the rear and the front is Marzzochi so no problem there. We'll see anyway. Just fancied something different and I like 4 strokes as well as two, but firstly it has to be competitive as the Classic is dominated by modern twinshocks now. Therefore the Majesty is waiting in reserve - the Ossa is hereby pensioned off...

Bloody Hell - I can't believe the animosity Jon H has attracted with his post. Regardless of whether you believe it was the 4T Montesa, all he said was a 4T was louder than a 2T and that is generally the case. If Jon was at the practise ground I think he is referring to there is every chance the landowner has a decibel meter and was on the warpath as the council are close to closing him down through noise - caused mainly by 4T motox, enduro bikes and quads. On the subject of noise, I have a 426 Yam enduro and my mates have 2T KTMs. Regardless of the decibel level (which is a science/load of B*****ks in its own right - my Ossa registered 107 at one trial - yeah right) my Yam can be heard from some distance away being ridden in thick woods at our practise area, whether being revved or pootled along, the KTMs can't so you wouldn't know they were there. The low thump of a 4T carries much further than the 2T. (Therefore I don't ride my bike there) None of us as Joe public know whether 2 Strokes are dead or not just as none of us know whether that was a 4T Mont or not. We weren't there. They are, or have been available in Europe so who's to say someone hasn't brought one into the UK independently. There have been plenty of direct imports, why not a 4T Mont. Give the guy a break. He hasn't been malicious or insulted anyone, said anything damaging (how is what he said damaging...??) What did everyone get so wound up about? It's like a bunch of bird watchers miffed that they weren't the first to spot the newly hatched lesser spotted throat warbling 4T Monty. Lighten up. As far as 2 stokes being dead, how can anyone on here answer that one. If it was intended to generate a debate it certainly did that...... just not on the actual topic. An educated guess would be that if 2 strokes were about to be outlawed Yamaha would not have invested a tidy sum in developing their all new alloy framed YZ125 and 250 2 strokes but left the 4 strokes with the steel ones. KTM have only just introduced brand new 2 stroke engines in their enduro range. That suggests they will be around for a while yet. If the FIM want to ban 2 stokes from the WTC let them. As club riders do we really give a stuff. If the other factories can't afford to develop 4T WTC contenders what are the FIM going to do? Close the championship down or have it as the Montesa/Honda challenge for maybe half a dozen riders, or allow 2 strokes to continue. The FIM can't ban the use of 2 strokes in individual countries outside of the WTC, so as long as government/global legislation allows them to be produced the factories will continue to produce them if there is a demand. Just a personal opinion.

Love this sort of stuff. In the 60s and (for me) 70s, having a works bike fitted with special bits sitting in the same queue to a section as a club rider just added to the interest and enjoyment of competing. The works parts or next year's development bits always seemed more visible then than they are now and always captured the imagination. Works Sherpas with different airboxes, 247 Monts with prototype 348 motors, Prototype Gripper which was half Gripper, half MAR, Tony Gorgot on the 330 Mont prototype in SSDT etc. One-off works bikes like the short/long stroke Hondas. Privateers did their own thing too, Don Smith's Stag, Steve Wilson, Bultaco. I guess the last of the true works specials were the RTL Hondas. Most factory bikes just look the same as over the counter bikes now. I know they aren't before anyone steps in, but they don't really look any different. Sadly I don't have any pics to contribute but I'm hoping others do.

Not sure what that is saying about the Seeley. Cough up Dabster.

No takers so I'll have a go then. Purple wheel model is actually a 94/95 and they are generally thought of as the best in terms of power delivery and grip. Biggest problem, depending on how tall you are, is the high, in current terms, standard footrest position but this can obviously be resolved by moving them. The 96 bike was the first to have the exhaust manifold with the canister on it and was probably a bit sharper as you have said. I had a new 98 bike and it was too zippy off the bottom. Had to give it to Nigel Birkett to soften off with some porting work and it was fantastic after that. Gripped like hell. 96 onward also had a 5mm, maybe 10? spacer under the top yolk to higher the bar position. However, as the youngest bike is now about 6 years old they are all generally pretty soft in their power delivery as they've lost any sharpness they may have had. Don't interperate this as flat or gutless though because they aren't. They are a tremendously torquey engine, just very manageable off the throttle which means you aren't 'chasing' them through sections. You can pretty well ride them without always riding the clutch, even in higher gears. The engine will pull any gear you want they are that torquey. I haven't owned a Scorpa but I've had a go on a few and in my opinion (and that is all it is) the Scorpa engine doesn't have the same torquey flexible feel as the TYZ. The Scorpas I have ridden still had a softish delivery but they weren't as smooth around say nil to quarter throttle and had that distinctive slightly jerkey 'beat' that most modern bikes have if you ride slowly without the clutch. You can drop a TYZ down to nothing in a section, then pull away again with no snatch, jerkiness etc. even in 3rd or 4th gear. It's power delivery just seems so linear all the way through, no sudden bursts or surges, just responds precisely to the throttle. Beautiful engine - again in my opinion. The difference is probably only down to the different exhaust systems. Just to clarify, I'm not saying the Scorpa isn't as good, I just prefer the feel of the TYZ motor as it feels more torquey to me.

Motopat - I've found a manual. I think it is for the later bike as it is the 2 part one. Doesn't really make any difference though as the info you will want from it will cover all models, such as oil quantities, fork oil etc. The things that changed on the bikes over the years won't really affect general servicing. These were different ignitions, rear shocks, front pipe, longer/shorter tail pipes and the later bikes had a spacer under the top yolk to raise the bars to compensate for the high footpeg position but that's about it. The only thing you may notice is that if you ever need to remove the flywheel yours may not be the same as the one in the manual and therefore need a different puller. All you would need to do is give your dealer the engine number and they can supply the correct puller. Or you could make one. Whilst talking about servicing, if your front forks work ok I'd leave them alone as they are a sod to work on. Straightforward enough, just time consuming. If you do ever need to change the oil set the level to 95mm. 10 weight works ok for me. If I remember rightly, the manual says they take 440ish cc of oil per leg but you cant just fill them with this quantity. They have to be bled to fill all of the internal chambers, as per the manual. If you just fill them with 443cc it is way too much and they won't work. Once bled and the level set the final quantity is a lot less than 440cc. E-mail me your address to dajwood@aol.com and I will send it to you. It's in good condition apart from a slight water stain on the top of the first few pages due to a water leak in the garage, but it is ok, there is no deterioration or anything. Don't want anything for it as it is a spare. Once you've had a chance to get used to the bike there are a couple of things worth doing. As said before, footrests are quite high as it is an early 90s design so it is worth changing them for wider, modern type rests and moving them down and back a bit to get a better stance when standing on the bike. Standard position you can feel that you are tipped over the bars too much. Depends on your height as to whether this is causes you a problem or not. If you find the engine a bit quick off the throttle you can move the ignition stator to full retard to slow the response a bit. This won't hev any affect on the engine's power and it will still pull perfectly well, just won't hit so hard. TYZs don't have much steering lock so if it hasn't been done already you can'sculpture' the frame either side to allow more lock. Most have been done by now. Also have the fork legs protruding from the top yolk buy about 10mm to quicken up the steering. All this is personal preference of course and you may find the bike fine as it is, but these are some of the mods done. Hope you enjoy the bike. They may no longer be 'modern' but are still very capable and the best thing about them is the build quality which should give you hassle free riding. Mine is 10 years old, been through the scottish 6 day more than once and is still on original rings, shock linkage etc.

Wasn't in last night so didn't get chance to look. I'll check tonight and let you know. Pretty sure I still have one for the later bike. Early manual was one thick book but for later bikes it was split into two thinner books, not sure why. Not sure about the Comp 4 oil. May be ok but I don't know. To be safe I'd buy some proper gearbox/clutch oil as it is less than a tenner for a litre. I use silkolene light gear oil and it works fine. Boofont said it takes 600cc but I think it may be 800cc. It is displayed on the clutch case by the filler plug so you only have to look there to check.

Hi Motopat. I've had a few TYZs. They are a good, solid, reliable bike, last a long time and can take a lot of abuse. There aren't any inherent problems with the clutch. I've had occassions where the clutch doesn't disengage at all from cold when you first put it into gear but as soon as it frees off there are no further problems. I've never had it creep forward though. Sounds obvious, but is it correctly adjusted on the cable? If the bite point is too close to the bars it may cause creeping but can't see how that would disappear as the engine warms. Is the cable ok or could that be sticking and slowly releasing itself after you have released the lever. A warped plate perhaps? I've never heard of them but don't know for a fact it doesn't happen. Depends on how much abuse it's had. The TYZ will take a lot but everything has it's limit... I'd change the oil as a matter of course as you've just bought the bike and see if it improves. Any of the modern gear oils should work ok. If it doesn't clear, you may have to check the plates. Gearboxes again are good. Most bikes will crunch occasionally when selecting at a standstill, but the TYZ will generally snick in and out quietly with no problem. Maybe linked to the clutch problem. The fan issue is difficult to answer. If the bike isn't losing coolant I wouldn't worry. You could just replace the thermostat for peace of mind. TYZs are fine for prolonged use and are a very reliable, virtually bullet proof engine. I've never had one overheat. I've thrashed mine around the Scottish six day, wringing it's neck everywhere all week at 82mph which is flat out and it's never lost so much as a thimbleful of coolant all week. You should be able to get a manual from a Yamaha dealer if still in print but not sure. I've no idea of the cost though. As far as I know there isn't one available to download from the net. However, I may have a spare manual for the 1998 bike that I could sell as the bike I have now is a '95 and I have a manual for that. I'll check and let you know. Finally, an excellent source for info on the TYZ is Nigel Birkett as what he doesn't know about them isn't worth knowing. Any problems you ever have he should be able to answer.

everyone thought you were going to reveal a picture of it.... Beta also now produce enduro bikes using the KTM range of 4T motors. How about a Rev 3 with a 525 EXC motor. That would really level rock steps

Just had a quick look through MCN whilst in WH Smith at lunchtime for their 'report' on Moto1. Unless I missed it elsewhere, there is a measley quarter of a page article, largely comprising of how good the stunt riders were and a quick mention that DK won the event overall. No report on the day's proceedings whatsoever, who won what discipline etc. Seems they can devote pages to banging on along with all the hype of how Rossi is 'the best motorcyclist in the world' but have no interest in reporting on a unique event to find the UK's best all-round motorcyclist. Could it be because the off-road boys trashed the roadracers - surely not.

Birkett's definitely did a different brake plate for the mono so worth a call to clarify whether it was the YZ mod that some people did or something different. Several people in our area fitted the Gateway disk conversion when they were new and to be honest they weren't much of an improvement over the drum brake, if at all, according to those that had them. We had no experience of the Talon conversion so can't comment. Shirty also offered one I think but again can't comment. Ellastone off-road breakers who advertise in TMX are worth a call if you want to convert to disk as they have broken a few mono Yams so may be able to help out with the pinky disk job.

A chance for all of you with twinshock and Pre65 machines currently languishing in sheds, gardens and garages to get them out (ooer missus) and give them an outing in the Classic Experts run by the Rhayader Club. A good traditional trial with roadwork around the beautiful Rhayader countryside which has some of the best trials terrain to be found. Two routes, Expert/Clubman, so something for everyone, with sections comprising streams, roots, banks, gulleys etc. Organised by the enthusiastic Malcolm and Anne Bates, the trial desrerves to be well supported so dig out those old bikes and use them for what their creators intended. Regs details should be in TMX - secretary is Anne Bates, Little Gigrin, Rhayader, Powys, LD6 5NU TEL; 01597 810435. Closing date is 8 November.

Pems in Rochdale were Fantic dealers 01706 645781 and still stock parts for them. Give them the engine/frame no. and they should be able to identify it for you. Ditto Bill Pye in North East somewhere but don't know his number. Memory's a little hazy now but if it is around 1991 I'm guessing it may be a 247 (212cc) or 307 (250cc) as I think these were the only air-cooled Fantics to have USD forks around then. Orange/white tank and White frame/mudguards colour scheme originally, plus orange hubs. They did do an air-cooled 'clubman' model in the water-cooled era a couple of years on from that but can't remember what forks that had. Either of the above dealers should be able to sort it out for you though.

I certainly do - Nice buy Big John, I'm not at all jealous I thought it had sold to someone else. Now if you'd care to sponsor me on it in the Classic series I wouldn't have to worry about all those 'what if's' that stopped me bidding on it - oh ok, and the fact that I knew I would be outbid anyway Tim - the 306, or 305 (as it seems to be referred to as either) came in both long-stroke and short-stroke. The long stroke was the original, specced by Miller and based on a stroked version of the TL250 motor I believe, such as that in Big John's bike. The short stroke was a new motor built by HRC with completely different bore and stroke making it very short in height physically and oversquare. The 360 evolved from this short-stroke motor and they achieved the 360cc by lengthening the stroke. The 306 short-stroke and the 360 differ in appearance from the long-stroke, most easily recognisable by the high gear lever position. Now I'm no expert on trials Hondas but this is correct to the best of my knowledge. Attached picture is of Shepherd's 360

Not sure now - I thought they did a 306 long and short stroke - I'm gonna have to consult my book now and have a look. PS - It was a complete replica bike that was on e-bay, not just a frame. Don't think you can see it now as it is long gone but you never know if Big John still has the URL or e-bay item number. I don't unfortunately. I've a picture of Shepherd's 360 somewhere which is pretty similar in looks to the 306. If I can find it I'll post it later

The Scott enduro Jackets are well worth considering. Alan Wright sells them and will no doubt be at one of the shows. I bought mine for the Scottish last year, 6 days of continuous, pulverising rain, and I was always dry underneath - apart from the tears running down my neck anyway.... They're perfectly suitable for trials use, not too heavy or restrictive and around the

Well, I'm no expert on this subject but this is what I know, or more accurately, have been told over the years. There were 4 replica frames made by Jim Susans. These were of the old 306 Hondas as ridden by Miller, Shepherd, Jeffries, Higgins and Co. At some stage, four original works engines and exhausts were made available by Honda and built into the frames, presumably after Honda pulled the plug on its trials effort, by which time the works boys were on the 360. Exact replica tank and seat units were fitted which included the sculptered cut-out in the underside to clear the camshaft cover. They may even have been from the original batch made for the works bikes, don't know. Don

He didn't just win either, he murdered them - apparantly lapped everyone apart from Eddy, and only failed to do that as he pulled in on last but one lap to snatch a drink as his mouth was dry. He is some rider...

If the clubman route was eased next year, I'd put money on there being just as many people complaining that the the trial was not enough of a challenge as have complained that it is too hard this year. It is definitely a no win situation putting on any kind of trial, let alone one of this magnitude. I wouldn't like the job of plotting 80 sections and trying to judge it right, especially after my sections were deemed over the top by some in our centre trial last week.... they weren't though and it does rile when you've spent two Saturdays hacking out new hazards and leaves you thinking b####cks to it. My own thought on the Lakes is that yes, it was hard, it is a national after all and should offer more of a challenge than a centre trial, but I enjoyed the weekend and with a few exceptions I don't think it was too far away from ideal. Just a handful of sections could do with modification, such as Saturday's much loved grassy banks before lunch and a few others where trick riding would be required to achieve cleans, but out of 80 sections there will always be a few mistakes. There were plenty that were easily cleanable and if you are sure you can't clean a section, one or two well thought out pre-planned dabs could get you through. Admittedly there will always be some sections for the average club rider that will generally be a 3 at best, there have to be, but if you just happen to hit the right line and achieve a better score than 3, even a magical clean which does happen, the sense of achievement is high and it is one up on your mates who have sprogged through it. In terms of someone taking charge, I don't know the individuals involved in staging the trial, but surely this is what the COC does and as has already been mentioned, he was around most of the groups (uncannily, always sections where I spun out, remarking through a grin that he thought TYZ Yams gripped) and was aware that some sections were asking a lot and I'm sure this will be addressed next year. It is noticeable that in the last 2 or 3 years, sections are tightening up a little and with the natural terrain in the Lakes, there is perhaps no need for it. I'd certainly prefer more stream sections than rock outcrops, grassy banks etc. but getting the right mix must be difficult and I have no idea what problems the club may have in gaining permission to use land. I would definitely ride it again without any changes next week if I had the chance. Trials like this are too few and far between. I realise not everyone will share this view but what is required if people are really unhappy is constructive suggestion to the club on where sections were deemed unsuitable. Stinging criticism will just deflate the efforts of those who work hard to stage the trial - look how many stood out on the moors all day just to ensure gates were closed - and possibly discourage them from doing it again. As Hillary says, who else would fancy taking on the job next year knowing what you may be in for if the standard is judged wrong by the riders. It would be criminal if a trial like this was lost - long may it continue - just don't make it any harder......

If you know Chris Slack, who is from around your area - I think he runs or assists with the running of the Peak Classic club - speak to him. He rebuilt a 350 Gripper not too long ago and made a superb job of it, looked like new. Not sure what condition it was in before he started the rebuild so maybe it didn't need many parts, but he may be able to help. They have one trial left this year at Mick Andrew's place. Not sure of the date but it will be in TMX. Maybe worth going along to see if you can find him. He rides a Majesty now. There are some Grippers in use down south in classic trials, and Steve Bisby from Sheffield runs one in the ACU Classic series, so there are a few out there. If you are prepared to hunt, you probably will find most mechanical parts - piston and con-rod should be no problem in the states - but if you do order one make sure it is an Ossa one. The Yanks also fit modified Yamaha rod kits to Ossas, mainly Phantoms as they are much stronger than the Ossa one, but these require the crank webs machined to take the larger big-end bearing so they aren't a simple replacement fit. There are some reputable US traders listed on Mats' site. The main problems with parts start if you are missing anything other than the airbox such as exhaust, tank, side-panels, sliencer etc. These can be very hard to come by. Don't give up on it. The engine isn't as bad as I've probably made it sound to work on. The Bult is without doubt a piece of cake by comparison but really you just need to watch the shims and be patient. If you trust it to anyone else make sure they know Ossas.

Ossa website address; http://hem.passagen.se/ossa/

The things to watch when splitting the Ossa crankcases are the shims. The crank will have shims on it and the gearbox mainshaft, layshaft, selector drum and kickstart shaft will probably all have shims on them, possibly at each end. When you split the cases, the crank and gear train will remain in the right hand case, do it slowly so that nothing falls out, that way you can note exactly where the shims are in order to put them back in the same place on reassembly. Some of the gear shims are paper thin and can stick to the bearings when you split cases rather than stay on the shaft, so check that also. There is also a shim, approx 1mm thick from memory, which sits behind the outside gear cog on the clutch side of the mainshaft. Watch you don't lose this as that gear can slide off the shaft when cases are split and the shim can go with it. Then again, don't be surprised to find only one or two or no shims in the entire engine, depends on how it was shimmed at the factory or by whoever last had it apart. If it ran ok last time you used it and the gears selected ok I'd just put it back together with the shims exactly as they are now. To shim an Ossa engine from scratch is a time consuming nightmare. It's easy to see why a lot have just been put back together without being shimmed. If the shimming is out though you may have gear selection problems. Some seem more fussy than others. The only special tool you may need is to remove a tapered fit sleeve on the clutch side of the crankshaft. Can't remember if the Gripper has this. The MAR does as it is for the cush drive. Grippers didn't have the cush drive, but not sure about the sleeve. Best to speak to Jeff on this. Have an impact driver ready to remove the crankcase screws. If they've been in for a long time chances are they'll be stubborn. The heads are soft and can chew easily, especially if the screwdriver is not a good fit. Best loosen them with a driver but watch not to smash the cases by getting over enthusiastic. Also remove the selecter drum spring and housing before splitting cases. This is a large screw, say 1.5cm diameter, in the right hand case somewhere under the final drive sprocket. Removing this takes the tension off the drum and will stop the gear train being pushed out of the right hand casing when you split them due to the tension of this spring on the drum. Just makes retaining the gear train in one lump easier when the cases come apart. Get a manual from Sammy Miller as it covers most of this. Although it isn't for the Gripper the MAR engine is identical in terms of disassembly and assembly, apart from maybe that sleeve on the crank. There is also a good website, can't remember the actual address but it is run by a Swedish guy called Mats Nyberg. If you search under his name you'll find it. Loads of links to various suppliers and you may also be able to download a manual. You may have to look the States for Piston and Con-rod kit if you need them and Jeff or Miller can't help. The parts situation in the UK is not good for Ossas, especially Grippers and the various breakers have nothing left. Bearings and seals though can be had from local bearing company so no problem there, including the O-rings that seal the gearshaft and the Kickstart shaft (in the right hand crankase for the gearshaft and the clutch case for the kickstart and gear shaft) Worth replacing these as if the one in the right hand crankcase leaks after you reassemble it is another strip-down to replace it. Can't think of anything else at the moment other than to say good luck as they can be a bitch to work on.... Just getting the engine out of a Gripper frame is a trial of patience. Whoever designed that layout must have been on drugs and you may need a few yourself after an hour or so's wrestling

Jon, none of the venues we (midland centre clubs) use for events are open for general practise as far as I know, although I guess some of them may be if you live locally to them and know the farmer/landowner, as you do with Hobs Lane. I think if you just want time back on the bike to get bike-fit again, Linley woods is as good as anywhere. We used to go regularly 10 - 15 years ago and had some mega sections. There's probably still a good few bits from our bikes lying around over there... idea - must go and find them and sell them on ebay as broken up junk seems to fetch good money on there... There aren't any dedicated trials shops anywhere near now, as far as I know. I tend to get my stuff from wherever is convenient at the time. Alan Wright (Tri-co) has a fair bit of stuff but no shop, trades from home in Solihull and usually has a stand at the shows. Don't have his number but sometimes has ads in TMX.