woody

Thanks for the replies. I managed to get hold of Bill Pye after posting the question. Between us we couldn't work out what the forks I've got have come off, other than they are 32mm Marzzochis (they're fitted to a C15) so the question became academic after that. Whatever they are, they're dismal and will shortly be replaced with something else. I must add though that I've never had to speak to Bill before, not having owned a Fantic since 1982. He doesn't know me yet happily chatted along as though we'd known each other for years and even took time out to check up on all forks fitted to all Fantic t/shocks to try and identify mine. Very nice bloke and very helpful.

Same here, I took the front out of mine to see if it did soften it a little. Couldn't actually tell any difference in performance but it was certainly no louder. I think it is the middle one that causes noise problems as I lost the rear restrictor in the SSDT and didn't notice it being any louder.

Just as a comparison I had a 2000 YZ426 from new and ran it for almost 3 years in enduro and hare and hound events, during which time it was used every 2 to 3 weeks. I also had supermoto wheels and used it on the road now and again. In that time it needed nothing replaced, just regular oil and filter changes. The motor was as strong when I sold it as when I first had it. The manual said change the piston every 3 races..... I have a 4RT also and there is no way that will ever get the abuse in trials that my Yam got so I can't see any reason to change a piston every year (or equivalent number of hours)

A long shot probably, but UK dealer Steve Goode may have odd bits for Italjet trials. You can e-mail him at stevejgoode@aol.com or if you want to telephone 0044 (0)1938 850544 - drop the zero in brackets I think. He definitely has some bits and pieces for twinshocks as he has been trading since 1980 and was an agent for bikes from that era when new. Worth a try.

Munch - did you buy those or did you make up brackets yourself?

ORO = Offroad Only in Llandrindod Wells Tel: 01597 822666. Massive retailers for offroad bikes and ATV accessories and spares. They used to have a website but seems to have disappeared

Can anyone tell me the quantity of oil in a Fantic 200 front fork. They are 32mm diameter marzzochis off an early 200. Thanks

Yes I know and I don't like the 'hijacking' of topics, but this one was already way off your original question so I thought no harm... Problem with a question like that though is you're never going to get the correct answer unless it comes from a qualified engine/mechanical/development engineer or whatever their correct title is. Just about everything else is opinion/conjecture. Not unlike opinions on different makes of bike perhaps... I've always wondered why they run so hot too but have no idea - or is it just an illusion/misconception that they run hotter. Has anyone ever compared temperatures? (serious anorak stuff that...) Plenty of 2-stroke enduro bikes boil up when thrashed through bogs, not just 4-strokes. I know one thing though, I've had both lying on top of me following a spill at enduros and the pipe off either feels just as hot when it's stripping off layers of flesh - or maybe the 4-stroke edges it but the pipe is a fraction of the diameter of the 2-stroke so I guess it would. And just to answer Webmonkey's question, I bought a 4RT after trying a couple over proper sections and liking it - like you, didn't care what anyone else thought as I'm the one riding it. Just the way it was with the TYZ too...

Not 4 strokes per se, just the 4T . Often by people practicing sciolism The Mont has taken far more criticism than the Sherco. People were queuing up to knock it before it was even released and once it was out it was flayed for various 'faults', more often by people who had never ridden one. The Sherco has got off lightly compared to the poor old 4RT. (I have a 4RT but like them both) Favourite trials engine ever..?? Birkett's TYZ engined NBT special. Nothing else comes close (for me)

I fitted one to my 05 280 pro and it made no difference. Tried a mate's 05 250 pro before and after he fitted a flywheel weight and the improvment with the weight was very noticeable, smoothed the bottom end right out and softer pick-up. I know other people who have fitted head spacers and been pleased with the difference but I honestly couldn't tell any difference on mine. I know which mod I'd go for if I was in that position again. More expensive but easier to fit than the head spacer.

Thanks for the input guys. The bike has the distributor engine and is actually runner and reasonably well sorted, electronic ignition, alloy rims etc. The reason I was after a cam is because I'm having a bit or work done to the engine (by someone who knows what they are doing, not me) and they suggested I might try a sports cam. If it doesn't work too well, I can always swap back to the road cam. I managed to get one yesterday from Vale-Onslow. Interesting, as when I went there Saturday the disinterested bugger behind the counter (not Len) said they hadn't got any C15 cams at all. When my dad called in there yesterday to get gaskets etc. and realised that Len junior behind the counter was the same Len in his class at school they had a chat and hey presto - a camshaft appeared...... So last night I came to reassemble the gearbox with a new bearing and bushes and bugger - bushes have to be reamed out, something I can't do so another delay. The joys of old iron.

Thanks for that, I'll try them tomorrow. Can't believe how difficult it is to source a C15 road cam. I thought there woiuld be loads lying about on shelves but no luck today. Tried 3 'enthusiastic' 'specialists' whose attitude left something to be desired. If I have the luxury of choice for parts in the future I won't go near them again

There was more to Eddy Lejeune winning 3 titles on the trot than just the 360 motor in his twinshock bike. That bike was the culmination of a good few years development starting with Rob Shepherd in the late 70s and it was a very special bike right through, not just the motor. And of course Eddy was a pretty good rider... When they went to the mono RTL Honda built Eddy a one-off 360 version but it wasn't successful and was only used for one year. The next year he switched to the 270 works RTL with Steve Saunders. The 360 mono wasn't at all pretty and looked a mess as well. I'm not an engineer so have no idea what the optimum size is but don't see why it has to be 250. The enduro/motocross bikes have no problem with overheating on 400 - 550cc engines so I can't see why a modern watercooled trials engine couldn't be up to 350cc if the manufacturer thought it needed that capacity. There is a lot said about the 4RT being underpowered but I don't think it is personally. I've got one and it will do far more than I am capable of making it do. More than enough power for club riders, enough to finish 2nd, 3rd in the SSDT and enough for Dougie and co. to throw a standard one up some pretty fearsome indoor sections before they got their works versions. A bit more than any national event rider would have to do. Trials isn't all about socket wrenching power unless you're at the sharp end of British Championship or WTC level when a bit extra helps... Incidentally, Lejeune never had to compete against 250 Yams as they didn't have a world Championship rider after Mick Andrews, who was the oldest rider to win a world round in '81 or '82 on the Majesty. Apart from a one-off (fluke..? home bias?) win by Thierry Girard on a mono in late 80s they haven't campaigned at world level since twinshock days. Didn't stop the TY mono being one of the best ever clubman bikes for 10 years or so and it was by no means the most powerful. And I think they sold every one. I would guess that the reason Honda went for a rideable 250 is that there are far more clubman riders out there than experts and a user friendly 250 will sell more than something with too much power. Sales in numbers is what it is all about for Honda. They provide step-up kits for hose that want more power. Yamaha probably opted for 250 as it was an exercise in economics, being cheaper to adapt an existing 250 motor than build an all new one. Obviously I don't know, just my opinion.

Anyone out there know of any C15 trials specialists I can speak to as regards engine set up - camshaft specs in particular? I know there are several around who can build nice motors but I don't know who they are unfortunately. I'm a bit lost with Beezas as I have very little BSA knowledge (shamefull I guess as I am from the home of BSA...)

I'd agree that it is almost impossible to have true no-stop at WTC now. The riders skill and the fact that the bikes are made to be danced about would make it an observing nightmare to decide if true no-stop forward motion was maintained - especially when they try and hop the front and back wheels 'on the move'. Stationary hopping or hopping sideways on the back wheel to get out of trouble is a favourite way of diguising the fact that forward motion is lost but the bike is still perceived to be moving - tough to call in the cauldron of WTC observing. On the old twinshocks this couldn't be done of course so that problem didn't arise, but you only have to see how the top guys get themselves out of trouble in the SSDT to see how they get around proper no-stop. I certainly agree that the skill shown in moving a bike around by hop and bop trick riding is amazing but I think it makes the gap between the best and the rest even bigger. Time limits can't work at club level and therefore you'd have two very different sets of rules for championships and the rest. Doesn't bother me but the consensus is that this is no good for bringing on future WTC contenders as they need to constantly ride to one set of rules. Personally I think if they are good enough they can ride any way, because they just are that good. I favour the old style no-stop as it meant a rider had to think much more about a section and pick the line and try and stay on it. If you lost it and wandered off line it would cost marks to get back on it as you couldn't stop, recover and then go again as many times as necessary, it had to be right first time as you only had one chance. I still think that if they set the rules as they are now (ie stop but no sideways hopping or reversing) and observed them properly the sections wouldn't have to be so severe. That's two trials in a row Doug has had nasty crashes and I don't put it down to him taking extra risks due to an uncompetitive bike - he was leading the championship until last week and the works 4RT has won a few rounds this year. I think it was only a matter of time before someone crashed heavily and unfortunately it was Dougie and the timing of it could well cost him any chance of the championship now. And that's why I think she will have stopped singing soon as he will struggle to pull those marks back now if the sections continue to be indoor style. But I hope so much that he can. And Hawstone if it p****s it down is a good place to start.

Those kits still come up for sale on e-bay too, usually in the US or Australia. Those TL Hondas are nice looking bikes but bloody hell they're heavy

Must admit I never get too hung up about the weights either. Weight bias to front or rear can make a bike feel heavy or light, not its actual weight. The Yam Majesty is a fairly heavy lump to lift about in the garage but to ride they feel quite light, especialy the 320 with it's short wheelbase and quick motor - no problem lifting the front end there. The lightest feeling twinshock bike I've ridden recently was a Honda TLR250 but I've no doubt this is due to it being a very well set up machine, as t-shock 250 has said, more than its actual weight.

I was quite surprised when Sherco went for the carb on the 4T as they have EFI on their enduro engines, both 450 and 250

Now that would be worth seeing! Well, he's already said he's spent 3 years fiddling with her technique so I would bloody well hope he can fire her up at the touch of a button now....

I agree 100% it should be the pinnacle of trials riding for the best in the world, the elite. The problem with it now, as I see it, is that it doesn't test the full range of their skills as it should. Infinitely varied conditions from mud, snow, ice, cambered climbs, root infested climbes etc. etc. It's just becoming the same almost every round. Rev and splat. Doesn't make any difference if the sections are made of rock, concrete, wooden crates, sleepers or whatever, it's the same technique over and over. No variance and it favours smaller lighter riders. Even the indoors from a few years ago managed to vary sections a bit but now they just use the same ones over and over. And I've never been an indoors fan, even when Dougie was winning it. I've nothing but admiration for their skill but it doesn't hold much interest for me really, certainly don't go out of my way to watch it. Same with outdoors. Last time I went to Hawstone, again the skill of the riders was awesome, I've no argument there, but the sections were so hard that if riders were marked properly they would have been given fives more often than not, and several times per section too. I just left thinking what's the point. There are rules in place but they are ignored. Bit like a golfer scooping up the ball and balancing it on the face of his wedge, walking from the tee, dropping it in the hole and claiming a hole in one. New technique, very clever but outside the rules. It seems the sport is being bottled up and promoted in a specific way now and I don't think it is for the better - but that is just a personal opinion. Ultimately it makes not one jot of a difference to my life what they do with WTC, I just think it is a shame what it is turning into. You only have to look at the once great RAC rally to see what happens when the money men get their hands on things - not allowed to run a forest stage rally in November anymore as it is too wet and there is too much mud and ice about. We want a nice clean event please so if you don't run it July you can't run it anymore in the WRC. Just about sums things up really. So I feel that for as long as sections are promoted in this way the lady can indeed stop singing. The arena type sections will favour the Spanish riders and the trophy will head off there. But I hope I am wrong as even if my interest in WTC is on a downward spiral I still want a British rider to win it.

The Scorpa 125 kicks over with minimal physical effort as it is only a 125 and it has auto decompression on the kickstart. From what I've seen and heard they don't give too much trouble firing up when either hot or cold. Best illustration I can give is of a rider who fell off near the top of a fairly steep, long bank. I had uprighted the bike for him and was about to help him drag it over the top, as to remount next to it on such a steep slippery incline and camber would have been very difficult. However, he just reached over to it from where he was crawling and started it with his hand first time. Gives you an idea of how easy they start.

Now that is funny - and no, I have nothing against nor dislike the 4T before all you owners jump on me, I just like a bit of dry humour....

I know steel doesn't anodise, what I meant was that I thought it would have no affect on the steel stem in the bottom yoke, but it 'buggers up' the process in some way so there can be no steel present in what is being anodised.

Beautiful looking job. I would guess your problem for marketing them may be that the trials fraternity is no so keen to spend money on accessories as much as the motocross guys. They look the dogs, so presentation/looks isn't a problem.

Having seen the photos and write up of the French round, if this is what the rest of the series is going to be like the fat lady can stop singing now and they may as well give the cup to Raga or Caby - I don't care which. Why has the outdoor turned into the indoor circus...???? France has some magnificent natural terrain and the best they can come up with is a load of boulders bedded into a hillside to create a load of rev and splat sections. What's happening to WTC? Are the organisers under orders to stage these kind of sections or do they just feel that is all it has become now and is what is expected. I know they need the hard standing parc ferme, telephone lines, executive boxes and all that balls, but is it really what trials is all about. They may as well just ship the indoor hazards around the outdoor venues if this is all it is becoming. The Duluth round seemed to have proper sections, although the rain spoiled things a bit..... A great pity as they looked awesome sections from the photos. If they can do it why can't the rest. That is now Spain, Japan and France who have staged indoor sections outside. Hopefully Hawstone will redress this to some extent, especially if it p****s down, although when we were there a few weeks back for a centre trial it looks as though there are at least 3 manufactured sections there too. One is more than enough - IMHO that is, being a lover of real trials and all, not the indoor pantomime. There are some things it would be nice to turn the clock back on - real sections being at the forefront.