woody

I don't disagree with you on this point, if someone wants to ride a twinshock in a modern club or centre trial there is no reason not to have better brakes fitted as it isn't giving you a 'cheat' advantage over modern bikes. As we've said all along, it is up to individual clubs what they allow in that respect, or even in their own twinshock club championships. If they allow discs then that's fine, it's their decision. We're only concerned about what happens in the ACU Classic championship and one-off events staged purely for twinshocks and Pre65 such as the one being discussed in this forum. The club will make it clear what they expect. Obviously this should have no bearing whatsoever on what happens in Scotland.

Whoops - forgot to add the word disc in front of brakes there - although the original sentence still applies in part to some old bikes, like my Ossa for one...

Sorry but you're way off beam there. In certain conditions disc brakes will offer a significant advantage when you have riders of similar ability. The one who has discs has immediate and predictable stopping power with a gentle squeeze of the levers. Those with soggy wet drums have no idea how their brakes are going to react from one section to another, maybe they'll grab, maybe they'll just run on. If the section is such that you gain an advantage from say a nice slow controlled decent down a steep slippy bank instead of being barely in control with drums that won't hold, or able to fiddle on clutch and brakes through some nadgery where the bike would roll on a bit on soggy drums, what has rider skill got to do with that? Each of those scenarios can cause a loss of marks to bring drum braked bikes back under control. With discs all the chance and uncertainty of how the brakes will react is removed as modern discs are entirely predictable in their action. Big advantage. Why do you think they are fitting them? To be fair however, most agree that they shouldn't be allowed and won't fit them. It is only one or two - at the moment. Now I'm not criticising or rubbishing the example you have given, but it is a B route and I'm assuming relatively gentle sections where braking power wasn't a necessity, so it proves nothing. The ACU Classic sections are hard but sensible and offer a good challenge to competent riders on twinshocks and pre65. There are some ex-centre champions riding and some can still score highly in the Novogar series on their modern bikes. If discs are allowed in this series they will offer an advantage, no question, especially in the Phil King round.... Yhose who have ridden it will know what I mean..!! Twinshocks were ridden without brakes when they were current and they don't need them now as the inevitable result will be trials that evolve into what we have now in modern trials, tight up your own backside sections that bore you stupid, the very thing that those of us who ride the ACU Classic are trying to get away from. Fitting discs is just not in the spirit of why we ride the twinshock championship in my opnion, if we are to allow that we may as well just stick to modern trials. Outside of that championship people can do what they like, it's up to individual clubs, but within, it is essential that the regs ensure a level playing field.

Quick way to pull the tyre and tube into line without removing the wheel is to deflate and loosen security bolts right off as Dabster says, then with the bike on a stand and in 1st gear pull the tyre/wheel sharply in the direction it needs to go by holding just the tyre. When the slack in the chain is taken up and the wheel stops abruptly against the engine compression, the tyre should slide round on the rim. Only takes a couple of pulls (oooer missus) and the tube/valve will be back in line. Can only speak for myself obviously but I see nothing wrong with tubeless rims/tyres fitted to older bikes. Some tubed rims will actually take a tubeless tyre (with tube and security bolts of course) without it dropping off the rim. The akronts as used on Ossa/Bult etc. seem to. I've had tubeless IRC on the Ossa for years and they've never slipped off the rim. Majesty rim won't hold one though, it always drops off on both sides for about 8 - 10 inches.

John, Ellastone Offroad in Uttoxeter had them mmade from a copy of an original nos Yamaha guard. They come in white or yellow. They are a perfect copy as far as I can tell in injection moulded plastic, fitted my Majesty no problem and are very bendy, would be very hard to break one I think. Originally you could only buy them from him but I think he has farmed some out to other dealers now, so any you see for sale elsewhere I would guess come from the batch he had made (I notice Sammy Miller was advertising them recently) They are regularly on ebay, there is one on there at the moment. FYI Ellastone's ebay ID is robbossrichdick PS there are also some fibreglass one's on sale too just so's you're aware

At the moment, not many but they are starting to appear. I just think that as soon as a few have them it will start the ball rolling and then how long before sections get tighter to suit clutch/brake technique. If people want that they have modern bikes and trials. I've nothing against fitting modern forks as I don't actually think they give that much of an advantage over a pair of good period marzzochis for example, but a bike's braking capability can alter the way sections are laid out and you end up with tight nadgery crap instead of good flowing sections. And if they have to go through the hassle of making a drum fit modern forks, maybe they won't bother with them either. I favour the ban on discs and ensuring the bike must have been twinshock as original manufacture, otherwise where will it end? I can't imagine that much that can be done to a good twinshock to turn it into a fiddle bike but there are a lot of people out there cleverer than me in that respect who can. Hopefully, if it is nipped in the bud with these two regs it will prevent it going like pre65 as who would have forecast what has happened to the development of those. I've nothing against people riding with discs on a twinshock in modern events or club trials, different situation altogether and up to the clubs involved, but in proper twinshock trials or championships, if they have them, I wouldn't stop them riding them but it would be outside of the awards/points as you suggest. And therefore there is no point better riders trying to gain an advantage by having them.

Discs definitely need banning as when someone has a GasGas or Sherco etc. front end fitted it offers a huge advantage over a wet drum where braking is required and can be the difference between arriving at the bottom of a descent on a perfect line feet up (something I no longer remember...) or having a dab or two to to get things back under control. No reflection on rider ability, just superior brakes and a better score because of it. Also, imagine a part of a section which has been carefully plotted where the bike has to be turned across an obstacle such as rocks, roots or the begining of a camber leading onto a climb. The object being that the rider has to be perfectly on line whilst making the turn non-stop otherwise front or rear wheel will slide away causing a dab or more. This might even involve a famous Schreiber pivot turn... Now imagine the rider with the modern disc who hits the front brake and hops the back over (which is a stop) and then with one flick of the front has turned the bike 90 degrees (still stopped) and ridden the the obstacle in two straight lines thereby removing the very nature of the hazard intended by the section plotter. Although forward motion has ceased and the rider has stopped the bike to achieve the turn, we know that the observer will not mark it as a 5 and the rider will get away with it, even though the trial is under no-stop rules. None of this is really possible with an old spongy drum brake and riders will be less inclined to try it. Allow a disc and it will be used to its full potential in every way possible, all of them outside the rules and spirit of no-stop riding.

And must have been a twinshock as original manufacture? Otherwise they'll be turning up on those mono Yams with twinshocks fitted. Don't think anything else is necessary apart from that and no discs.

Mate of mine has also been to the show and brought back the Scorpa brochure. Bike looks pretty much the same as it was in the release at the French round, don't think there are any additional decals. He said it does look pretty good 'in the flesh' though.

I don't want to even think about the kind of shop windows you were looking in...

Wouldn't be competitive anyway <{POST_SNAPBACK}> b*gger - can't think of a response to that

Craig Mawlam had some, this is his website www.yamaha-majesty.com

Definitely - and I think you should be able to get enough support to achieve a healthy entry. Speak to riders at the Classic Experts next week and see what they think as they would all appreciate a good national standard trial that offers a good challenge. I'll speak to riders at this weekend's ACU Classic and see what opinion is. Are you going for 2 routes? Personally, I think it is the only viable option to receiving a good entry due to the wide differences in rider ability and machine capabaility of those riding twinshocks and British bikes in the different series currently. It will also allow groups of mates to enter and have a ride out together when normally they can't compete together on the single route ACU Classic events as some find them too hard. Looking forward to it already. PS - Good to see disc brakes banned but can I carry on working on my TLR250 project if I use drums - 4RT with twinshocks, fins welded on the barrell/head and one of Honda RS' tank seat units in Rothmans colours

I always liked the look of the 335 but never actually saw one ridden never mind rode or owned one myself. I did have a 304 (basically a 242 mono) which was the baby brother of the 335 but it wasn't as good as a mono Yam by a long way. Neither was the RTL in my opinion having ridden both at the time. Doesn't matter how much they're worth now, the Yam was easier to ride, performed better all round and was generally unburstable, they would put up with loads of abuse and just keep going, as testified by how many are still being ridden today.

The class is really for Spanish twinshocks and I think they are supposed to be pre77, although that may have been dropped from the original proposal, but as the class isn't well supported they seem to allow other makes in. Really depends on the individual clubs as to how strictly they want to enforce it I guess but as the series isn't as well supported as it used to be they all probably allow twinshocks other than Spanish to ride to make up the numbers. I rode my Yam in the Greensmith as a final shakedown for this weekend's ACU Classic and was grateful to be allowed to as it proved very useful to sort out a couple of teething problems. I was perfectly happy to ride 'outside' of any points as it isn't a championship I'm contesting and I wasn't on the right type of bike anyway

Be another week or two before they are out yet. Yes you can ride aircooled monos and yes you'll enjoy the trials if they are the same events and standard as this year. There is one this weekend if you want a flavour of the series and it is one of the best by Hillsborough club - you may even still get a ride Also, definitely put Bootle down in your diary, the Tavistock round, Welsh Trophy as long as it is Rhayader club running it and the Lancs County round - if they are in next year. This will be the Mecatechno then - be nice to see one of those in action again.

Been a long time since I've seen one of those. Mate of mine had one new. He is only about 10 stones ringing wet and that thing made some serious power which, coupled with his full throttle riding technique produced some spectacular sights in sections. I remember on one section the wheels only touched the ground once between the starts and end cards with him and the bike resembling a ground to air missile. Nice bike - will it get an outing in the aircooled mono class in the ACU Classic..??

Friend of mine had a 350 Cagiva new back in 84 when I had a 320 Armstrong. Had a go on it and it was very pokey, very quick off the throttle with a short powerband and not much over-rev if I remember. Didn't suit me as I like lazier response with loads of over-rev if needed. They were sold as Cagiva here and Merlin in Europe. They are quite popular in Spanish twinshock trials and are always in the Spanish results/reports on Todotrial Classic. Some picture of them in action on there too sometimes.

Depends what you base your opinion on. If it is on longevity and ridabilty (apart from the awful riding position due to too high footrests) then the Yam wins definitely. They are without doubt the most reliable, there must be hundreds still being used and they are easy to ride and still very capable. In terms of out and out performace capability though they are beaten by later monos such as the TR34 and Fantic 305 etc. but how many of those are still around now compared to the Yam. I like the original TY250R from 83/84 with the small tank best for looks out of the Yams, but the 305 Fantic is another favourite for its looks and I also liked the way they rode.

I agree, ebay is generally a seller's market as some people just get caught up in bidding fever of 'you're not having it, I am'. There is the odd deal to be had as a buyer (just got a very reasonable TYZ for

But the sections aren't that tough really. There is never anything dangerous, mostly the severity of sections is as was used when twinshocks were current in centre and national trials. They are just right I think for twinshocks and better riders on the trick pre65s. It is a National championship remember and should favour twinshocks as pre65 is well catered for on many fronts, twinshocks are always overlloked, so it ought to offer a good challenge. So you have got to be competent to get through them without struggling all day but they certainly aren't killers. If you look at the results of previous rounds twinshock riders have often beaten the aircooled and modern riders and even when they haven't there have only been a few in front of the leading twinshockers - and of course Thorpey on his cub who usually beats the lot. One or two rounds have been affected by weather which has made them harder than intended but nothing anyone can do about that and one other was slightly over the top, but no-one is going to travel a 3-400 mile round trip and more in some cases to ride club trial sections. That happened when it went single route in the mid 90s and within one season the series was dead. No-one wants to travel that distance and incur the associated expense to lose 3 marks and be outside the top ten. If your bike stalled in a section you'd end up in 15th place. Riders quickly drifted away. I'm conscious that this is off topic and isn't helping GBMoto with his original question (but I don't think there is an answer to that which can help.... ) Perhaps a post specific to the ACU Classic is needed but I've tried it before and it had no response. Gordon - ban on discs is ACU classic series so won't affect you being Scotland or any other trials outside of that series, as the rest is down to individual clubs. But think about it. As soon as disc brakes become common what happens to the sections. They evolve with the development of the bike and riding style of the rider. You will have riders who will be using the front brake to flick the back around to turn tighter and they can fiddle around turns tighter using clutch/brake technique, disregarding the no-stop rule and it will go unpenalised. So what will happen to the sections when traditional type don't take marks anymore because riding styles have changed? Sections get tighter - it's an endless loop - catch 22 if you like and we've been there before as bikes evolved into what they are now. It's why the pre65 and twinshock scene became so popular in the 90s, to get away from all that clutch brake hopping circus. That's why I'm glad there will be a ban on discs in the classic series - wet drums don't lend themselves to back wheel hopping endos in sections...

The reason the forks can be fiddle inside is that they (whoever they are) like them to be of period appearance but they can be modernised inside. This is ok for people who have pots of money and can afford to have a set of old forks modernised internally, or a set of Marzzochis, for example, altered by repositioning the leading axle directly underneath to make them look old style. Both of these mods will cost. So although I can see why they would like to keep the forks to period appearance, all it does is play into the hands of people who can do it themselves or who can afford to have it done. Many true enthusuasts are then unable to compete on a level field as they can't just fit a pair of Betor or Marzzochi forks. Similarly hubs, it is ok to have a brand new set of bubs machined from super lightweight material in the style of cub or bantam hubs, with a braking surface that will work (these cost an awful lot of money) but not ok for Joe Bloggs to pick up a set of old Grimeca or other style wheels from the breakers. It's a crazy situation with what were originally good intentions now losing their way and penalising anyone on a budget. As regards Scorpa 125SF in the aircooled mono class, I don't think there is anything wrong with that as they meet the criteria and I don't think they have any advantage over bikes like 305 Fantic etc (one of my favourite looking trials bikes) Good on you John for carrying on with the Matchless, it's nice seeing bikes like that still being ridden. I believe this is where 2 routes are ideal these days as it enables groups of mates to ride together on their varying types of classic machinery at the same trial as 2 routes should cater for differing riders abilities and machine capability. This is why the old Sebac series was such a success - 2 routes and a huge variety of machinery being ridden with 3 figure entries commonplace. Now it is the ACU Classic with a single route the number of twinshocks and pre65 in total is less than 30 with pre65s never making up more than 10 of those. Why is it the series that needs 2 routes the most is the only one to have one...?? (forgot about the Novogar but that is a different situation altogether) - sorry, I wandered a bit there as that last bit was getting off thread but it is something I have strong feelings about

colour film or bikes..... I wouldn't be surprised if that Bultaco went to Spain for some serious money. I also think about