I have not been to a trial yet, in 32 years I've been a fan, as a rider, spectator or observer, watching club, national and world champs, has there not been some form of cheating/rule bending going on, by riders, minders,

The truth is, all the above goes on because they often get away with it, not until it cost big time will it stop, just like watching mothers trying to control kid's in the store, if they had of given them I right good lugholeing at the get go it wouldn't be an issue.

The truth is, all the above goes on because they often get away with it, not until it cost big time will it stop, just like watching mothers trying to control kid's in the store, if they had of given them I right good lugholeing at the get go it wouldn't be an issue.

Opinion not far from mine. Although many may feel sorry for Michael, his surrogate has done the job on his behalf.

You know what? Our jobs as observers is to hand out points according to the rules. If we did not there would be no competition. The slack off here and there and not wanting to create issues thing have led to a lax attitude by many over time. In reality it should not require the COC to make this call, as the observer should just do it!

Get the he-- out of my section! You do not belong here! It is difficult enough to monitor riders, yhis is why the rules are set as they are, too much interferance from minders and others. Paving! Yes! Prior to this rule it was an absolute clusterf--- when it was time for riders to come round.

It is difficult enough for observers to live within the rules, some things are simply subjective, others not. This is not Dad minding for his lad here on the boys line.

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Thats the standard versions, the factory versions will have carbon fibre handles or S3 stickers on them

The question is, should the procedure now be changed to add another level of punishment (like a formal warning) before the rider gets given the ultimate punishment, a 5 ?

The question is, should the procedure now be changed to add another level of punishment (like a formal warning) before the rider gets given the ultimate punishment, a 5 ?

Hard enough to get observers at present, cant see many wishing to put themselves in a possible position of conflict.

The punishment was handed out by the CoC wasn't it? So I would of thought other punishments were available. At club or national level you can give penalty points, warnings, disqualification, fines and so on. Can't see the BTC being any different (could be wrong though) but in this case the punishment has been so harsh it may prevent it from happening again. Im gutted for brownie. Would hate to think he never wins a BTC after this. Hope he gets it next year.

The Punishment was handed out by the CoC and that's my point. To elevate it to such a high level of punishment without issuing a warning is pretty harsh in the first instance. You often see in big football games the reservation of the referee to hand out yellow cards etc early in the game when so much is at stake.

Edited September 24, 201213 yr by atomant

Just a suggestion but like lots of issues with trials there is the letter of the law and then there is accepted practice, often two different things.

We all know in rocky events early numbers suffer. Equally loose rocky sections vary greatly rider to rider and loose rocks before a big obstacle can make the section a lottery. None of this is helpful in determining the best rider as the severity changes constantly.

Some observers recognise the above and allow some "adjustment" , riders often assume consent has been given.

So why dont we say in future if a rider wants to move a rock he must ask first or its a five without question.

If the observer determines that given the nature of the section its reasonable to move a rock then he gives consent.

No minders to move rocks, again this is a five for the rider without question.

Finally some re education of both riders and observers may be required, riders are not in charge here the observer is, both parties need to act accordingly.

In my view a lot of this should not be required at a local level, its a day out with very little at stake for anybody at club level.

Edited September 24, 201213 yr by baldilocks

or to avoid all this controversey have trials hard enough so a five like this wouldnt matter?

or just everyone apply the rules to the letter of the law, like rules should be applied,,,,,,

or to avoid all this controversey have trials hard enough so a five like this wouldnt matter?

Doesn't that crucify the rest of the entry though, thought that's why they had gone no-stop to ease the sections and get the entries up.

As mentioned elsewhere, very hard on Browny but not many tears will be shed by observers who have been subject to JS's antics over the years.

The Punishment was handed out by the CoC and that's my point. To elevate it to such a high level of punishment without issuing a warning is pretty harsh in the first instance. You often see in big football games the reservation of the referee to hand out yellow cards etc early in the game when so much is at stake.

If you do that again you will go to bed without any supper, What a load of baldilocks not much point trying to keep up with the many rule changes, when the first infraction only get's you a stern look or gesture from the official.

Club trials can still be a bit of fun. as for the rest! it's nothing more than a farce.

Doesn't that crucify the rest of the entry though, thought that's why they had gone no-stop to ease the sections and get the entries up.

As mentioned elsewhere, very hard on Browny but not many tears will be shed by observers who have been subject to JS's antics over the years.

so no stop is easy and stop allowed is hard?

If you do that again you will go to bed without any supper, What a load of baldilocks not much point trying to keep up with the many rule changes, when the first infraction only get's you a stern look or gesture from the official.

Simply just 2 steps. A stern verbal warning then on a repeated offence a 5. As long as its dished out consistently then that's all the matters. The very fact that this happened is because it was allowed to happen on all the other trials before and was not effectively challenged. When this CoC took this action, it was deemed to be harsh simply because no other challenge of that severity had been made in the past! ..... Maybe it should have done ?

Edited September 25, 201213 yr by atomant

or to avoid all this controversey have trials hard enough so a five like this wouldnt matter?

This works in principal, but practice is far removed?

By making trials harder which we all like to watch this has been proven to reduce entries, yes the point has been made about numbers of entries and is that really important? but surely running a BTC or a WTC for a handful of riders isn't good for the sport.

In reality there are 2 riders in the BTC, maybe 3 in the WTC that ride consistantly, so it makes no difference how hard or easy the section is these guys will come out on top over a series.

Now if Dibs and Pune want to hone their skills against the best then maybe they should ride the Spanish Championship, like Doug did? Yes it is down to sponsors etc. etc. but if they had the best interest of the rider and product in mind then surely that is where they should be?

The Spanish ain't going to bring it to us so let us take it to them, yes that will be detrimental to the BTC but I really can't see a way of getting a future British World Trials Champion.

Back on subject: Simple solution scrap the punch cards go back to boards, no rider or minder or manager can get the score off the observer and scores will be available at the end of the day. If an observer feels the need to 5 a rider within the rules then that can be appealed at the end, but it does take the pressure off the ''Volunteer' observers?