156 replies to this topic

[jordi]

GasGasJamie, on 12 December 2011 - 01:05 PM, said:

Rode my first no stop trial at club/group level in quite a while yesterday.

Did it work?: Yes, the clerk of the course laid it out open and every section was ride-able without stopping. (Thanks Steve/Jordi)

Was it too hard?: Was a tough trial compared to others in the series, but that was down to the extremely muddy conditions and would of been just as hard stop permitted. The clerk of the course also amended the sections after the first lap which helped.

Was it observed correctly?: Well the tricky conditions made it tricky, and so eleven out of the twelve observers were on the lenient side as far as I could make out (no scores yet). This made the trial better as cleans could be made and there was definitely an effort by all the riders to keep moving.

Was it enjoyable?: Being not a great fan of the piece of land, I wouldn't say it was the best day out ever, but it was definitely a lot better than the same trial in the previous few years.

Overall?: The atmosphere seemed flatter than usual for this series. Perhaps its because its the end of the year and everyone's minds is on Christmas, but I think that the new rules have not won over everyone just yet.

I think its too early to start criticising the rules, we need to give it more time. Would you sack a Premiership manager after just one loss?

Glad you enjoyed it Jamie, it was set out as no stop, and I think it achieved that. No section needed hopping/stopping and certainly we put in nothing that could not be construed as "too tight". Atmosphere would probably be down to the damp, gloomy and cold weather in the wood.

p.s. only moved 1 flag after the 1st lap.

Edited by jordi, 12 December 2011 - 05:56 PM.

[Woody]

Duggan, on 12 December 2011 - 03:02 PM, said:

The trials world will never agree on this argument, it's down to personal preference. Maybe different clubs should agree to use different sets of rules so there's a trial out there for everyone to enjoy. In my area we have upto six clubs so this would work fairly well.

This is what we have already. The no-stop rule is for the BTC. For every other trial that a club runs it can choose whichever rule set it likes, nothing is forced on them. The only exceptions are the current national series that also run under no-stop and which have done for some time.

The no-stop BTC ruling is intended to bolster entries in the championship class at BTC - it has no bearing on what is going on at club entry level and will have no direct impact on potential newcomers to the sport.

[2/4]

I think you need to consider how you come across on this Beatabeta. Is it reasonable to say that no stop is not working (or is working for that matter) after only one trial? Of course not.

And where were all these unhappy under forties when it came to attending the trials seminars that keep being cancelled due to lack of support?

[paul w]

you know what, this is just why trials will keep on going. it doesnt matter why you ride, or to what rules, but to hear so many passionate people talking about the sport they love is great.
Yes, i prefer one set of rules to another, those that know me will know which!! but it doesnt stop me riding the other set.
Which is best?
Look at the enteries this year for your local clubs and see what was more popular. I know that some of our local clubs are changing this year, time will tell on that score.
Remember, in ANY trial, YOU all ride the SAME rules, whatever they are.
Dont blame your result on them!!

[Pete_Scorpa3]

2/4, on 12 December 2011 - 06:52 PM, said:

And where were all these unhappy under forties when it came to attending the trials seminars that keep being cancelled due to lack of support?

Well said.

The Ralph Varden may (or may not) have been a success, but Alan Wright, Mark Hicken, John Langston and Youth A rider Charlie Langston were the only people willing to set it out, so they should be thanked for their efforts irrespective of the outcome.

This leads me nicely onto another subject.

The Stratford-Upon-Avon club are holding their AGM tomorrow night, Tuesday 13th December when any current club member, and any persons wishing to become a club member in 2012 are welcome to come along and put forward their proposals on all aspects of the club.
This includes running the club, organising permits, liasing with land owners, attending centre meetings, observer liaison and for one or two lucky people... even setting out trials!
Yes, the job of setting out trials is up for grabs, so be quick or you will miss the chance!

Will we see the same people elected at the AGM to do the same jobs yet again this year?

Yes of course we will, not because they win the vote but because the hoards of "under 40" riders will not step forward to take over.

'IF' feelings about Stop or Non Stop rules are so strong, then do something about it. Here's your chance to have a go, come to the meeting and offer to help.

There's three big single lap Nationals to organise, four multi route club trials to run and don't forget the Ralph Varden Centre trial that seems to have gone so badly. All offers of help greatly recieved.

Beatabeta, you are most welcome to come along and say your piece in person, if you came along and offer to take over any of the committee jobs you would be a very popular person indeed!

Pete

[ishy]

One trial one complaint!! that's bloody good, been putting them on for years and would be pleased if I only got one complaint.
Were did complainant finish in the results ?.

[tricks]

There's bount to be complaints. Personally i think there should be two series run, a No stop series and a Stop series, that way you pick what event/series you want to ride in.. and then you can't complain.

You don't see people turning up to XC races only to moan about it not being run like a time card enduro event.. same goes for Supercross and Motocross

You pick you ride. nuff said.

[ALTA]

Yesterdays No Stop Ralph Varden trial was one of the best trials I've ridden recently but being over 40,perhaps I'm biased!From a B route point of view,it was great to ride long sections,with a choice of lines.There was a decent number of riders and there was a noticeable lack of queues.Why would that be?!Nothing worse than watching someone who thinks they can trick ride five a section two or three times in one go and take a long time doing it!
No stop is contentious but having ridden trials continuously for 34 years and having experienced the various rule changes over the years,I think it can only benefit trials in general.Yes,some people will disagree with me but I suspect a lot more will agree!No stop,if adopted across the board,will ultimately encourage fresh blood to trials because it levels the playing field somewhat.It will encourage an "I fancy a go at that"attitude,rather than a "blimey that's good"(but I don't think I will ever be able to ride like that so I won't be getting a bike).
The vast majority of riders cannot trick ride,whether they like to admit it or not,so why not cater for the majority,not the minority?Of course,minorities usually make more noise and tend to get their own way!(Hitler being a good example!)
The lack of entries in the World and British championships surely suggests that something is wrong.The danger is that lesser events will go the same way.Bike development will advance so much over time,that sections will become tighter and more outrageous than they currently are,so less people will be able to ride in the manner that will be necessary.Bike development influences section layout and influences the rules and vice versa.The vicious circle continues,until,like the Ouzle bird,trials will disappear up its own........
Food for thought!I await comment!

[jimmyl]

tricks, on 12 December 2011 - 08:27 PM, said:

There's bount to be complaints. Personally i think there should be two series run, a No stop series and a Stop series, that way you pick what event/series you want to ride in.. and then you can't complain.

You don't see people turning up to XC races only to moan about it not being run like a time card enduro event.. same goes for Supercross and Motocross

You pick you ride. nuff said.

I think thats what you alreday have. As woody said every club can do what it wants. If a club feels it can better please its members or get better entries by running one set of rules or the other then it is free to do so. Event by event if it wants.
As Pete Scorpa3 says - get off your behind and get to club. TC is good but it aint a democratic process. Go to your club AGM or Centre meeting and vote - as Alexandra says - simples!!!

[mickmetcalfe]

I rode at the Varden as well, again on the B route and generally thought it was a very good day out.

There were a couple of places that I felt were a bit tight but at the end of the day it was an open to centre trial and was supposed to be harder than the normal club trial. There were a few queues early on but the entry quickly spread out.

I paid no attention whatsoever to the A or C routes on the day but the results show that basically the same riders as normal were doing the winning and looking back through previous Varden results, the spread of marks lost was pretty similar to years past.

No Stop is certainly easier to observe and heaven help us if we ever have to suffer that absolutely awful OpenFree system they use for the Spanish championship.

I only heard one rider moaning on the day, but that was from the one person who seems to moan constantly about everything anyway...

[Enrico]

I too rode the South Coast Group Trial at Faygate on Sunday and, like Jamie, I must admit that its not my favourite venue - especially in the wet. I rode the middle (Blue) route and thought that Steve and his band did an excellent job. It was the best trial that I have ridden there for a long time, and certainly in the wet.

The sections were all 'do-able' and you certainly didn't need to stop and hop. I haven't seen the scores yet (luckily in my case!) but I can say that myself and all the guys who I rode around with and spoke to afterwards thought that it was an excellent trial.

I must admit that I am (well) Over-40 and do prefer the non-stop type sections but this trial highlighted that it all depends on the experience of the Clerk of the Course to set out suitable and sensible routes.

As was posted earlier, there is nothing to stop those that want non-stop trials to stand up and offer to run them / lay them out. Why not start their own 'Stop Permitted' clubs and see how many volunteers they get to help?

[Old trials fanatic]

ALTA, on 12 December 2011 - 08:58 PM, said:

Yesterdays No Stop Ralph Varden trial was one of the best trials I've ridden recently but being over 40,perhaps I'm biased!From a B route point of view,it was great to ride long sections,with a choice of lines.There was a decent number of riders and there was a noticeable lack of queues.Why would that be?!Nothing worse than watching someone who thinks they can trick ride five a section two or three times in one go and take a long time doing it!
No stop is contentious but having ridden trials continuously for 34 years and having experienced the various rule changes over the years,I think it can only benefit trials in general.Yes,some people will disagree with me but I suspect a lot more will agree!No stop,if adopted across the board,will ultimately encourage fresh blood to trials because it levels the playing field somewhat.It will encourage an "I fancy a go at that"attitude,rather than a "blimey that's good"(but I don't think I will ever be able to ride like that so I won't be getting a bike).
The vast majority of riders cannot trick ride,whether they like to admit it or not,so why not cater for the majority,not the minority?Of course,minorities usually make more noise and tend to get their own way!(Hitler being a good example!)
The lack of entries in the World and British championships surely suggests that something is wrong.The danger is that lesser events will go the same way.Bike development will advance so much over time,that sections will become tighter and more outrageous than they currently are,so less people will be able to ride in the manner that will be necessary.Bike development influences section layout and influences the rules and vice versa.The vicious circle continues,until,like the Ouzle bird,trials will disappear up its own........
Food for thought!I await comment!

well put

Here's another thought for you I constantly hear riders whinging on and on about how their bikes are worth nowt after two years and how depreciation is killing them and how money is tight blah blah blah. Well get used to it cos have you seen the price of fishing poles, golf clubs, proper mountain bikes, ski equipment etc ? Now the possible return to no stop rules might just have an unexpected flip side. Under No stop it's not so important, unless you need to convince yourself that a new bike will make up for your lack of ability err which it wont, to have the very latest machinery. In fact it's no dissadvantage to have a 5 or 6 year old well amintained bike so the knock on effect is that the resale values of bikes will be higher due to people not feeling the need to always buy next years model. OK the manufacturers may not have thought of this but if it gets more people into the sport, which i think it eventually will once all the whingers have either put up or shut up, that has to be a good thing for EVERYBODY dont cha think?

[Pete_Scorpa3]

Here's the results form the RV to have a look at, remember, the observers were told to give a five if the riders stopped moving forward.

http://www.stratford...g.uk/page5.html

[axulsuv]

So section 11 on the A route was tough , and the rest of the scores look like a normal day's riding among mixed competitors ... Not to high not to low and no clean loops that I saw . Looks like it worked from here .
Glenn

[Old trials fanatic]

Interesting to read the actual results not just listen to conjecture. Seems about right to me with no really horrendous scores and a result that wasnt a clean sheet. Where's the problem? Unless it's a dummy spitting moment from the riders who have spent all their time practising bouncing up and down and leaping up cliffs to then find out they need more tools in their toolbox than the ability to stick it in third rev the nuts off it and dump the clutch?

Edited by Old trials fanatic, 13 December 2011 - 02:29 PM.