Gas Gas Future?

[lineaway]

The GG USA site lists over 100 "dealers". The one nearest to me doesn't have anything GG related, not even a poster. The ones I do use for parts don't stock GG specific parts, only inexpensive generic items like brake pads, levers, grips, etc. Parts always get dropped shipped from the parts importer and sometimes they have to order it from Spain. I don't see the need for a dealer when I can just call the parts importer directly.

I heard that the only requirement to be a GG dealer is to sell 2 bikes a year. Most of these dealers are doing it as a side business or to get personal bikes at wholesale.

The only thing things a dealer needs to stock, Levers brake pads, bars, grips and jets. Throttle assemblies and both sizes of throttle cables. All these are universal. For the gasser. Shift lever, .engine gasket set, several primary gaskets, a water pump seal, kick start shaft with extra pawl, several top hats with spring and a shift shaft. The rest can be ordered quickly enough.

ft with extra f

Edited January 25, 2015 by lineaway

[john.b]

They havent until now...

And it has been going for years like this actually...

May be it has been like this for years, but this is now, and Gasgas through bad management are 26 million in debt, they have no credit to buy parts and can now only buy parts for cash. That cash is soon going to dry up just paying the interest on the outstanding loans. Apart from parts that they have in stock they are going to struggle to build their productts. They have tried to negotiate with the banks for six months and are now facing a supplier taking them to court to put them into liquidation.

They have six months to sell the business or find a benefactor wishing to inject huge amounts of cash. Sorry but you are deluded if you think it is normal to run a business like this! Customers, ie us, are not stupid, we are not going to spend £5000-£5500 on a trials bike that might be worth next to nothing if Gasgas goes pop. So Gasgas might have thought they were boxing clever by protecting themselves from bankruptcy, but they have sent a clear message to buying customers that they are knackered, badly listing and about to sink. I have a Gasser and wish and hope Gasgas get out of this mess, but the only way forward is for a complete buyout of the company by a third party investor and then a complete clearout of the management team.

A good accounts manager must be a priority as well.

[nigel dabster]

The GG press release on TC when read carefully suggests the situation may be terminally serious. The two key sentences say there has been failure to reach an agreement and production stopped. Couple this with the effect this situation will have on prospective purchasers and things do not look good. My guess is they will have to cut back on those large trucks and rider support. I can remember when Honda UK had to severely cut back its road racing to reduce costs to counter the treat from grey import sales.

​Despite my previous criticism of GG gearbox quality and other over light build defects I hope they (and OSSA) survive but they may have to move to a business model more like Jgas.

Trying to keep you on thread and accurate.

Gas gas have one (1) truck for wtc and its very old, had it for years.

Production has been halted for " a few days".

I for one would buy one if i thought they would go bust, wish id done the same with Bultaco.

In case you haven't heard Jorge Casales has gone beta.

They have very little rider support and Raga employs his own minder.

Lastly werent you buying a jgas then declined because of a wait, or was that someone else (cant be bothered to remember) but point being if they cant supply to peeps waiting for bikes what kind of business model is that to aspire to?

[neils on wheels]

You only have to look at the rate of companies entering the trials market & then finding it financially unviable to realise that this is not and rarely has been an attractive market.

The first wave of bikes were off shoots of British road bikes, these lost out financially and competitively to the first wave of Spanish manufacturers. Bultaco & Ossa went bankrupt, Montesa were saved by a Honda investment that gave them local manufacturing facilities to avoid Spanish import tax.

In the mid '70s all of the Japanese manufacturers explored the trials market to varying degrees, of these only Honda remain involved, the rest having concluded the market to be too small.

The first Spanish wave and Japanese were replaced by largely Itlaian manufacturers, Fantic, SWM, etc, who have also either gone bankrupt or left the market for more attractive sectors, e.g. Aprilia. I think only Beta have survived from this group.

We now have a second Spanish wave headed by Gas Gas and Sherco and who knows the revived Ossa brand, JGas, soon Vertigo and TRS will be the third Spanish wave.

Through all of these periods there have been many small start ups that have never made much impression, or reached the market.

This amount of entry and subsequent failure or exit indicates two things: the barriers to entry are low for a trials manufacturer, but it is hard to make a sustainable business building low volume bikes into a small market.

Edited January 25, 2015 by neils on wheels

[neils on wheels]

according to the dvla about 3 times more betas are registered each year than gasgas..

Is that Beta trials bikes or the sum of scooters, enduro, trail &'trials bikes?

[johnnyboxer]

You only have to look at the rate of companies entering the trials market & then finding it financially unviable to realise that this is not and rarely has been an attractive market.

The first wave of bikes were off shoots of British road bikes, these lost out financially and competitively to the first wave of Spanish manufacturers. Bultaco & Ossa went bankrupt, Montesa were saved by a Honda investment that gave them local manufacturing facilities to avoid Spanish import tax.

In the mid '70s all of the Japanese manufacturers explored the trials market to varying degrees, of these only Honda remain involved, the rest having concluded the market to be too small.

The first Spanish wave and Japanese were replaced by largely Itlaian manufacturers, Fantic, SWM, etc, who have also either gone bankrupt or left the market for more attractive sectors, e.g. Aprilia. I think only Beta have survived from this group.

We now have a second Spanish wave headed by Gas Gas and Sherco and who knows the revived Ossa brand, JGas, soon Vertigo and TRS will be the third Spanish wave.

Through all of these periods there have been many small start ups that have never made much impression, or reached the market.

This amount of entry and subsequent failure or exit indicates two things: the barriers to entry are low for a trials manufacturer, but it is hard to make a sustainable business building low volume bikes into a small market.

And that just about sums it up, well written

[apexmetrology]

£3700 for a factory replica from the factory, importers are making a fair whack selling them at 6k a pop, granted there is import duty but still approx 1200 - 1400 per bike

Hi, obviously as a GG owner I'm disappointed it has come to this. Just hope that a positive can come out of it either in a) GG is saved or the other manufacturers look & learn.

regarding Import duty - I thought this only applied to goods brought in from non-EU countries. Can anyone confirm this ?

My understanding is that VAT is due but that is passed directly on to the end user at the end of the chain and as most of us are private buyers, non-VAT registered then we carry the 17.5% burden.

[nigel dabster]

Maybe 20% vat hasnt reached Bonnyrigg yet?

[crazybond700]

Vat is paid over the value added (its in the word right). So you pay over your margin.

For the consumer they pay the value of the bike + vat

The seller reduces this vat (paid by consumer) with the vat paid by the seller to the importer, that goes to government

and this cycle continues towards the producer, and suppliers

Edited January 25, 2015 by crazybond700

[ham2]

Ah yes Xispa. Do you remember a near bankrupt company called Apple? Xispa went down because the few people who bought them reported them to be rather substandard. It won't be an instant change.....

If you think you can compare a competition trials-bike product customer to an bourgeois,over-hyped Apple electronics product customer then you're quite the super smooth salesman? Trials bike owners don't fall for style over substance.

My experience in Chinese/indian mechanical-engineering mirrors the Xispa experience; I.E. If you want to get an anywhere near decent product from the lowest tendered bid then you have to have the whole process project managed by your own employees, in person, from day one (with all the extra costs involved) unless you want a seriously sub-standard component. You really have to 'stand-over' them (Chinese) 24/7 to get any worthwhile output. It's only worth it when we deal with economies of scale on an Ipad/pod/ped level.

A trials bike is not some 5 pence transistor and motherboard, your glib comparison is not valid.

[ham2]

Further to 'a trials bike is more than a commodity' here's an analogy that I've been sitting on since someone mentioned JH-J. I do think that a trials bike is a unique oddity in the motoring world and does not lend itself,easily, to the number crunching rules and regulations of mass production. A bit like.....

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/motoring/haha-haha-ha-harveyjones-1602523.html

Edited January 25, 2015 by ham2

[apexmetrology]

Maybe 20% vat hasnt reached Bonnyrigg yet?

Thanks - must be Sunday morning and ain't paying attention ! Appreciate the correction.

[axulsuv]

Further to 'a trials bike is more than a commodity' here's an anology that I've been sitting on since someone mentioned JH-J. I do think that a trials bike is a unique oddity in the motoring world and does not lend itself,easily, to the number crunching rules and regulations of mass production. A bit like.....

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/motoring/haha-haha-ha-harveyjones-1602523.html

AHH... The Iconic Morgan There's not much in the motoring world that can beat a warm Sunday Morning Drive in a Morgan +4 or a V8 ....with no place to go

Most likely the ultimate purest sports car ever ... Long may they live , just as they are .

Glenn

[dabber]

As has already been mentioned whether GG are market leaders or not if they aren't turning a net profit over a period of time the music will stop.

Maybe best we can hope for is for an administration that allows a Phoenix co to start afresh on a much smaller and sustainable scale. Can't be good for JST and their planning as a business particularly since the Enduro line was removed from them. Can't be a relationship between GG and JST of100% sweetness and light already can it?

[dadof2]

#78 "Lastly werent you buying a jgas then declined because of a wait, or was that someone else (cant be bothered to remember) but point being if they cant supply to peeps waiting for bikes what kind of business model is that to aspire to?"

It was not me thinking of buying a Jgas, but I did point out that a local GG dealer was choosing to ride a Jgas.

The business model I feel would be appropriate for GG is broadly that used by Jgas. Therefore a small assembly factory using parts bought in small batches from subcontractors who have specialised production equipment.

My time as a production manager coincided with the move away from manual techniques from design and manufacture to CAD/CAM CNC. There was no way we could justify the cost of moving all our processes to CNC, usually you were looking at a multiple of 10 to 15 for capital cost and an increase in productivity of at least 20 times. We invested in CNC for the core activities and subcontracted the peripheral items to specialist suppliers who were investing in CNC for that type of product. Productivity, turnover and ROCE then grew at an average of 10% per year.

GGs business needs to be about supplying well designed and built motorcycles, not wasting time casting and machining metal. Unfortunately judging from their debts they have either been running the business at a loss or over investing in capital equipment.