lineaway Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 I do find this a bit worrying, If they do go bust parts will dry up and the bikes will drop in value overnight. If this does happen a mint,hardly used, Raga will be going on ebay the next day and what I get for it, I will struggle to get a bike as good without spending an extra grand or so. Anyone with a Factory Evo wanna swap LOL. Not too worry. There will be many a spares bike too be had! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gasgas249uk Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 Gasgas have had difficulties in the past and pulled through. It is still highly likely something will be sorted out in the very near future. Dadof - the reason why this thread is not given information by people in the know is because people like you cannot discuss it reasonably. Your comments so far on Tc make it clear that you cannot draw reasonable conclusions . You twist and contort what you've said to fit the argument of the moment because your so desperate to appear on a higher ground than everyone else with a professional knowledge on so many things . It's a pity. Many people have visited the Gasgas factory over the years and many know what they make and what they don't make there in some detail. They also know where and when the debt was run up. Would they tell you and want to discuss it with you on here ? - Hell no Gasgas will sort this out . Good luck to them. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan williams Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 (edited) I hope they do sort it out but I fear it'll take a "white knight" sort of rescue and I'm not sure the trials world is big enough for a major investor to see this as an opportunity. I quite like the kick starter idea though I doubt their vendors would let it happen. Perhaps a chapter 11 or whatever the Spanish equivalent is and then a kick starter to keep them alive after the legal dust has settled. Edited January 27, 2015 by dan williams Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 CNC runs 24 / 7 So borus when did you last go to caldes de montbui? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gasgas249uk Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 (edited) So borus when did you last go to caldes de montbui? Dabster - On a relentless quest to rid TC forums of BS. Don't expect to retire soon. Edited January 27, 2015 by gasgas249uk 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
borus Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 So borus when did you last go to caldes de montbui? nimes - now I'm out as you guys know better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadof2 Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 "Dadof - the reason why this thread is not given information by people in the know is because people like you cannot discuss it reasonably. Your comments so far on Tc make it clear that you cannot draw reasonable conclusions . You twist and contort what you've said to fit the argument of the moment because your so desperate to appear on a higher ground than everyone else with a professional knowledge on so many things . It's a pity. Many people have visited the Gasgas factory over the years and many know what they make and what they don't make there in some detail. They also know where and when the debt was run up" 249 I am a bit disappointed to see this from you, I genuinely appreciate your contributions and articles. As an argument or discussion progresses there are bound to be adjustments in position or clarification, this is not twisting and contorting. I hope you are not suggesting that every post has to be technically correct and legally flawless at its first appearance. I know Nigel alternates between bobby’s helmet and lawyers wig but I did not expect you to join him. I am perfectly capable of drawing reasonable conclusions but in the case of GG do not have sufficient information to do anything other than speculate. If you and others do genuinely know things why so reluctant to post them? Perhaps a significant part of the debt is whatever they paid Pierbernat to buy him out? If its so well known where GG have gone wrong, and therefore by implication should have been obvious to "experts" in advance of it going wrong, how was it allowed to happen? I do not care whether I appear to be on higher ground or not, perhaps the fact that I have worked professionally and am qualified in several different disciplines gives me a wide knowledge base? I have on several occasions thought of setting up a manufacturing or maintenance business, which is something I would like to do, but on each occasion a proper business analysis in advance has lead me to conclude it may not be viable or the probable margins do not outweigh the risks. I have then seen several people try to start those or similar businesses. Nearly all have failed and given up and the 2 that are still going are finding it hard and may either quit or be force to close or contract. Certainly they make a very poor return if any on their investment. Several of these people were better prepared (as in product knowledge) then me but they let enthusiasm and wish to run a certain type of business blind them to a proper financial appraisal. Can the banks assess and run GG any better than Standard and Poor assessed Equitable life for example Come on then, let those with inside knowledge tell us where has GG gone wrong and why did they remove Enduros from JS? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan williams Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 Come on guys. Let's not bicker over who killed who. Clearly it's not in GasGas favor to give out information during difficult financial negotiations. Dad'O makes valid points though his delivery is a bit abrupt. Might simply be a matter of who has a dog in this fight vs those who are simply seeing data and analyzing. We do get attached to our bikes and manufacturers especially in a market so small many of us feel part of the team. I think for the good of GasGas we all, myself included, should probably back off a bit. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherpa325 Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 Is it possible that this situation has been brought to a head to secure some of the Euro bail out money to wipe off some of the bank debts. I don't pretend to understand how this system or process works, but maybe GasGas is eligible for some of this package? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_earle Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 If you read the interview with Pibernet there may be a lot of clues in there, Plus the big wage bill to their freelance designer who holds the patents still for a lot of the pro components. But again that's just my wild guess not fact. GG had buggered up, So what, they are only human, I hope they sort it out as I love the bikes and hope to continue to ride them. But there's always some one who will jump up and say (normally in a 1000 word essay) "you don't wanna do it like that". And the war begins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the addict Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 (edited) Is it possible that this situation has been brought to a head to secure some of the Euro bail out money to wipe off some of the bank debts. I don't pretend to understand how this system or process works, but maybe GasGas is eligible for some of this package? As I've said before, the debt is possibly not the problem, paying it off may make no difference at all to a business that is unable to make a profit - debt or not. If you make something for £10 and sell it for £5 your in big trouble, it makes no difference whatsoever if your accounts show a multimillion debt, the debt is only a symptom of the problem not the problem itself. Edited January 27, 2015 by the addict 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suzuki250 Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 (edited) "Dadof - the reason why this thread is not given information by people in the know is because people like you cannot discuss it reasonably. Your comments so far on Tc make it clear that you cannot draw reasonable conclusions . You twist and contort what you've said to fit the argument of the moment because your so desperate to appear on a higher ground than everyone else with a professional knowledge on so many things . It's a pity. Many people have visited the Gasgas factory over the years and many know what they make and what they don't make there in some detail. They also know where and when the debt was run up" 249 I am a bit disappointed to see this from you, I genuinely appreciate your contributions and articles. As an argument or discussion progresses there are bound to be adjustments in position or clarification, this is not twisting and contorting. I hope you are not suggesting that every post has to be technically correct and legally flawless at its first appearance. I know Nigel alternates between bobby’s helmet and lawyers wig but I did not expect you to join him. I am perfectly capable of drawing reasonable conclusions but in the case of GG do not have sufficient information to do anything other than speculate. If you and others do genuinely know things why so reluctant to post them? Perhaps a significant part of the debt is whatever they paid Pierbernat to buy him out? If its so well known where GG have gone wrong, and therefore by implication should have been obvious to "experts" in advance of it going wrong, how was it allowed to happen? I do not care whether I appear to be on higher ground or not, perhaps the fact that I have worked professionally and am qualified in several different disciplines gives me a wide knowledge base? I have on several occasions thought of setting up a manufacturing or maintenance business, which is something I would like to do, but on each occasion a proper business analysis in advance has lead me to conclude it may not be viable or the probable margins do not outweigh the risks. I have then seen several people try to start those or similar businesses. Nearly all have failed and given up and the 2 that are still going are finding it hard and may either quit or be force to close or contract. Certainly they make a very poor return if any on their investment. Several of these people were better prepared (as in product knowledge) then me but they let enthusiasm and wish to run a certain type of business blind them to a proper financial appraisal. Can the banks assess and run GG any better than Standard and Poor assessed Equitable life for example Come on then, let those with inside knowledge tell us where has GG gone wrong and why did they remove Enduros from JS? If you do start a business, you would have to do an Investment appraisal on purchasing keyboards with all that typing! Edited January 27, 2015 by suzuki250 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadof2 Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 (edited) At last, a bit of light hearted wit. I have built up 2 businesses and yes, I do use computers and a relatively simple spreadsheet can avoid most pitfalls. PS I am at this moment multitasking, typing and watching Dragons Den I have threatened junior that if he keeps wanting money, I will stick him in a layby with an ice cream van until he can emulate Duncan Bannantyne and keep me in the manor to which I would like to become accustomed. Edited January 28, 2015 by dadof2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadof2 Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 Sherpa 325 #114. I will not attempt to explain QE in full, I will get accused of long posts and wearing out keyboards. Basically the banks have lent too much to those who can't pay it back. Many business need to borrow to run their business and consumers need to borrow to buy business's goods. With all the money tied up an debts everything grinds to a halt. QE (printing money) is an attempt to put sufficient spare cash into the system to get it running again. It has the potential to help GG but the banks (having ballsed up in the past) are under such close scrutiny this money will probably only find its way to a few financially secure businesses. Banks have been forced to substantially increase their ratio of capital to lending, this has taken money out of the economy, to some extent QE only replaces this. I know of a motorcycle dealer who wanted to borrow a moderate amount, much less than the assets it was to be secured on, but even so the banks would not (possibly could not) lend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 It must be great to be an expert at most things. Except spelling of manor post #118 should be manner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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