chewy

Seems to me that generally Woody has a handle on what is at the root of these problems. Riders make choices regarding how they are going to tackle a particular section or obstacle. The trial is won by the rider who loses the least number of marks. There are many "variables" for riders to consider when making their assement of how to tackle a section.... no stop includes more of these less tangible variables than stop allowed. It is a different game or sport and both the riders and observers need to be more aware of each others abilities. I should say that whilst I'm not a no stop die hard ......it's a very British "thing" to be different to the rest of the world,... I don't see how we can lead from behind on this matter. However no stop rules do require riders to use more brain and less balance, they have worked for over a hundred years and provide generally a more inclusive days sport for the majority of abilities. It sounds like this inclusivness reduced the result to one section being the decider. As an old git I remember final result frequently being decided by a special test; then it was usually a dead engine start ,ride as fast as you could around ( lets say a section) and stop abreast the start /finish line..the stopwatch or marks lost in the effort always provided a result and it was fun to do.

Ah you missed the point;; simplified it is no matter what common sense dictates there is always a catch 22 included to confuse matters.

Having read some other forums on here it is probably more related to some power restriction to fit in with an insurance requirement (see form 631 A para B re. dvlc note 79854 clause c.) not to forget FIM cert. b ref. sh!.. t !s !n control which covers international events relative to all riders under 18 years and with a licence in compliance with part B DVLA form 6/3335 ref para 4. this is All benificial as it provides full time employment for many otherwise useless individuals not to mention the tax revenue they can contribute. It also of course ensures that there is no liability if anyone ever gets hurt, which of course in turn helps with our pensions as profits mean share values increase in line with D.O.E objective 6/1.324 subsection para 3. fig 2.111.3. Of course the real solution is to offer a cuddly toy with every bike thus eliminating any problems which may arise..Simples.

one day somebody will make "the perfect bike" until then we are oblidged to "put up with bad points" of our chosen bikes ...bit like women really!

Just for interest ; I'm enjoying riding in France at moment on my little (pony!) no 200 evo... It is very different from 200 available here... more power & tourque....we think probably UK bikes not being subject to homologation "stuff" has heavier flywheel and ignition timing more advanced... I.m 84 kilos and it pulls all gears up to 4 in sections as good as any...I've always been a bit throttle happy so it suits me better than a big un. Only negatives regarding beta generally are poorly designed/manufactured and overpriced rear mudguard and of course the electrics/stator. Both these issues must be cost/profit related .i.e considered more profitable to sell them like they are than to sort it out. I.ve found it effective to dismantle the clutch plates every few rides, just so they'll seperate WHEN you want them to ..not a millisecond after you pull the lever... I'm sure its just oil film and flatness of friction surfaces that causes stiction and would wellcome other solutions.

Good lord ..modern living ...how petty and crass can the law get...has nobody any common sense any more?

Good lord ..modern living ...how petty and crass can the law get...has nobody any common sense any more?

If only somebody had told about 40 years ago!!! it's clearly too late for me.

read it last night funny ; they said they observe and drink with moderation...moderation!!they are so funny ..thier idea is a good un though it is to form a pool of observers and discuss their particular problems etc.

Please fight your political battles on any other week or format ..you will not "win" you will queer the pitch for everybody

I agree with twinshock.. am currently riding daily in France there are a couple of youngsters who can do all the tricks but they just don't understand line riding....how can you be smooth if you don't know (or have a plan) regards where your'e going?. It seems to be a forgotten part of trials which is essential for no stop success...and a skill which is in itself interesting. The other thing I notice regards the average stop and re alighn brigade is that they have stiff legs ..not important when you have time to re alighn but fluid body is more important in line riding. Best suggestion is to practice different tecniques on same section.

spot on Wayne about a mile up the road..Yate Court.Funny enough I put a "quiz pic" of me in our local gazzette from 1979 (c 30 years ago) at this venue trying to identify the two guys looking on. http://www.wessex-centre-acu.org.uk/ if you want a "rare "shot of me with my feet down..te he..

Because the lad in question has a way with words and his smell choker disnt wok.

Lets hope they vent any annoyance towards the factory who insist on putting the crap in there in the first place. Warranty on EVo is 2 years on mainland europe and Lampkins are pretty reasonable.iI must still make financial sense to carry on. sorry to be a cynic on this. It seems to me this and poor rear mudguard desighn /material are two small things to put right at time of manufacture which would have a signifigant positive affect on sales and cost of sales. Somewhere in this Beta forum is an article/post by Dan williams re. poor electrical desighn with a lot of good info that may be helpfull. Keep us posted.

Hi Nikos IF 1% of us could speak Greek Language I would be surprised. do you have organised clubs or just ride out with friends..what is the terrain there like? I could see a good business opportunity there for trials holidays..te he.

For anybody who wasn't there this was our first Ctr. Champs Trial on no stop rules.....think we got away with it. Many Thanks to Fraser Dicken for getting it done so fast .we hope to have some "comedy" edits for dinner dance and names /captions etc along more vids. sorry guys this is self evident but the one below works & is next to it.and a bit of the little ones

http://www.20min.ch/ro/videotv/?vid=234837&cid=124 hope tihs link works ..first time effort

At least we have a bit of interest going on;.. Last summer one of my riders (Jerome Bethune) whilst leading a trial on day 3 by 19 marks was given 20 marks for breaking a tape.......whilst jumping out of the way of a rider coming through the section....the club added 4 extra sections on paper and everybody else got cleans.. Jerome was beaten after 4 days by that one point. This cost him 500 euros in bonuses yet he still had to go on the podium and make with the smile and speech. I also know that Jerome earlier in his careerwasn't backwards in offering his opinion regaeding the standard of some observing. The lesson I took from this as a competitor is always to be polite and if in doubt ask (which he effectivly had done.. there was ironicaly a language problem with the english observer). It is the interpretation of not only the rules but also of what transpired by the official(s) that defines what happened. As an observer;I have had "run ins" with top riders wearing yellow plate etc. I try to be fair and consistent. As a C.O.C.; I have been presented with disputes between top riders and observers. If I know (and I make a point of doing so) that the observers are fair and consistent. I will support their decisions as would any COC. Generally what the riders ( and I.ve been there!) fail to appreciate is the vast differnce in the perspective of either side of such disputes and think they have been singled out for "special treatment". My comment earlier in this forum regarding onlookers is that through the day onlookers come and go ,sometimes coincidentally with their son/ cousin/ brother /mate/preffered top rider who is riding and quite a few who only see that little bit of the action at any given section..then feel moved to offer advice to the incumbrent observer which is often at complete odds with the advice of the guy who came and went a couple of hours earlier and the guy who is coming along in a few hours time. I have to say that all such comments and advise are nearly always presented in the nicest ,friendliest manner possible with the best of intentions. Fortunatly for all of us we are different and make different judgements; imagine if we had sensors on the bikes and our boots etc. to make the decisions... very few grey areas to discuss then. Regards the touching of flags whils riding/walking the section; we have covered it before I think it was introduced by FIM for WTC (probably to clarify a grey area)and promptly interpreted solely as away to take marks by some. Regards dabbing outside of a section ;..I will have to be honest and plead guilty to the charge AND in excess of 10,000 other similar offences.I trust that that all those good people who have provided sport for me over the years will now recalculate all those results so that I may return some of those plastic trophies which are going brittle nearly as fast as I am.

Are you biting on my hook John.. one difference regarding where the section is.... onlookers . If your reference to done right is what I think it is then I agree that generally sections set out "Easier" and marked "Harder" would pre emt a lot of nonsense. there are some trick riding elements starting to emerge at the Scottish though which as you rightly say are OK provided the bike doesn't stop. That point seems to be where all the furore and argument regarding stop /no stop rules stems from. I hope we don't hear during radio interviews any references to harsh observing decisions or such cliches as are frequently printed. all best CW

Why not volunteer for the top sub of Pipers Burn this year John.

Shelly is going to take umbrage with that Jon.

Absolutly loving it.. This is the first one I.ve had with the Keihin carb and it really is a differnt bike compared to the mikuni days. It runs clean and consistently it pulls me (fat &astard) up big hills in 4th... So far (6 weeks) it's a pleasure to own. I tried to have a go on a 290 which is really nice bike to ride but could'nt kick it over.....a real mans bike for sure. Ps If you get to Wrighty before me tell him to take plenty to SSDT..if he can negotiate some space to sell from if he can't perhaps he will advertise on here ..it's the perfeck media for him.

Here we go then; like many I am now counting off the days to the Scottish again. I.ve been participating in a conversation on f.Book regards splitting our sport into 2 ..the trick riders and the no stoppers...phew . During the course of this the issue of interpretation of the rules came up and the SSDT was used to highlight how trick riding rear wheel floating, even stopping with the footrest propping you up has been witnessed and how it should be should be interpreted. As it happens I am nowadays one of the guys making these decisions 275 times a day for 6 days. What we see and interpret it as; is a large part of the equation to provide the results, we are not automatons and are well aware of what we do. Frequently it is a case of; you're damned if you do and you're dammned if you don't make a judgement so; can I invite either actual situations which you would have interpreted differently or possible scenario's and what you would mark them as. Please bear in mind that hitherto practically all observing decisions have been supported by the COC & then the stewards,and that the overiding imperitive is to be consistent ...this topic is intended as a straw poll /something to whet our appetites. The SSDT is a long long way from broken and certainly doesn't need to be mended so please lets just keep it as an exchange of views.

Stella lager (not my my ex ..although both were) reasuringly expensive.. we will all have to wait and see. It is interesting to read that we are not as punters entering into this as complete idiots.

Either that or this tanglefoot is messing with my eyes