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That's a really awkward rule. I've just watched it and wound it back and forth a few times. You have to actually cross with both wheels (ie. the rule is that you can't cross your tracks with more than one wheel). Even running it in slow motion it's hard to tell if her front wheel ever actually crosses its own track. Looks like Laia's pretty careful to run the front wheel right along the tape, so you can understand why an observer may not pick up on it. We had a section at Hawkstone where there was some advantage from crossing your own line, and the minders would put their foot exactly where the wheel passed, so there was no doubt when the rider came back. Not sure I would have called it.

Could I reserve an XL Bib and a quiet spot at one end of your motorhome for some point in the small hours of the morning. Good luck mate, don't worry I'll catch ya! Or yer bike, take yer pick

I'm a bit unclear as to whether they are annoyed at me or not, but as they haven't got a computer, I'm assuming I've maybe been misquoted off-line. Just wondering if something else has happened in the background? Hopefully the message wil get back to them. Feeling a little guilty but mainly as I think I've been misunderstood. If I saw a rider turning round and having a go at an observer as mentioned in the letter, I'd be one of the first to bite their head off.

Got an anonymous letter today from somewhere in Shropshire, forwarded via our secretary. I'm not really sure of the tone of the letter, but I'm thinking that someone thought I was having a go at our observers. That was never my intention, and reading through my previous posts I think the only bit that could be misconstrued would be where i said we were fairly slack in our area for marking a '1' for a stop. I was including myself in that on the occasions I have observed. I think most people will know that I never complain about any observing, and I am always in defence of observers from prima donna riders who should know better. Hopefully I've not upset one of our observers, who we really do need and I ABSOLUTELY APPRECIATE! My discussions were aimed really at how hard we make it for observers by having rules which don't seem to be working in a lot of situations. Apologies if someone got annoyed about any comments I made, they were not meant in the way that I think they were received. I'M ON YOUR SIDE Oh well, letter copied below word for word to give the observer their say on-line: Dear Gary, Couldn't help but put my view forward, sorry have not got a computer. "STOP!" Rules are rules from an observers point of view (one that does not give marks for stopping!) AND has read the rules time and time again. However! It's a good job all sections are not all exactly the same, that goes with the observer too (wouldn't that be boring!!) You should know by now that we all judge things differently, what might be a stop to you, might not be a stop to me. One dab may mean one mark to you. But when I've seen you dab once, twice and then another. Protesting at the end of a section, saying you've only had the one dab Means nothing. I noz what I've seen! I'm Observing. And any way, just because one observer gave you one mark for stopping, the next observer might not, so your lucky! Just remember which section that observer gave you that mark for stopping and don't Bluddy stop again. Tuff Luck!! OR put it this way. You may have a easy section, but the observer is tight it then makes that section hard. You may have a really tricky section and a observer with no experience, doesn't know how to mark correctly, that section is then made easy. Look at it differently Kids that might get to ride a world round will suffer. If they never experience losing a mark for stopping, here with our clubs. Where is the experience going to come from Their big day at the National, a World Round who knows? Better still ban the observer. who stands in the rain, snow, thunder, freezing cold wind, blazing hot sun, catching sun stroke every week and punch your own cards!!!!

If I were going to do summat like that (which obviously I wouldn't your honour) I wouldn't post my intent on a website. Sorta makes the case for the prosecution easier I can't condone violence of any form.... I'm not allowed to, it's in my terms for parole

That's one good thing to be said for punch cards. You know when you've goofed. Possibly you missed a flag or summat, or maybe you've hopped sideways and the observer is marking to the letter of the law. Maybe even stopped and the observer's not sure of the rules? At least with punch cards you know exactly what you've lost and probably why. Maybe next week eh. Not worth losing any sleep over.

Wish I could have been there to console you, I'm good in a crisis No damage I hope?

So your brave move will be to keep it the same Desperado Publicity Stunt? He'll try anything I've heard on Sunday he tried to leave a permanent advertising hoarding in the lower field - HIS VAN If you followed my tyre tracks, I only just made it, but I needed to get back for the rugby so was more committed

I have absolutely no idea where Vancouver Island is as I am in denial. I'm sure it's a terrible place to live with no scenery of any note. I'd probably hate to live there Do you live anywhere near Stevey Fracy? I hate you all But...welcome to TrialsCentral Sorry I don't have the RTX info for you, but you're bound to be in the right place for it if it's available. I don't suppose the RTX engine was Fantic related, just wondering due to the 212cc capacity whether it's related to the 240? Bikespace (Canadian wannabe)

We are very lucky not to have to struggle too much at our club to find observers. We recently expected a fuller entry and went up to 12 sections knowing that the extra entries should bring 2 extra observers. One thing I'm concerned about is riders giving lip to observers. I've never seen it first hand (fortunately). I would not overestimate the life expectancy of someone I saw doing it. It really gets my goat, but I have heard of it locally. Every riders responsibility is to have a quick chat with the observer (when they have the time), and have a laugh and a joke with them. Keep the poor buggers happy! Every observer on that course is doing the riders a FAVOUR. If just one thing you do all day can make that observer have a more positive day, then you've contributed to the club getting the full compliment of observers at the next trial. That's the only way to look at it. By all means have a joke, even just to check that they really do think that you had a three rather than a one or a two. But past that point, the only way you're going to change that point of view is with a less than confident observer being put in an awkward position. And thats NOT ON! Riders need to realise that very few of us are at a level where it's a privilege to observe.

What you doing now then? You can stop without penalty? Had wondered if there were going to be some "internal discussions" following Elwyn's comment on Shirty's front page bit as it contradicted the clubs new stance. Are you intending to just leave it as it is, where observers get the option to mark it how they please (and very rarely penalise for stopping), or specify that riders can definitely stop without penalty. If they can stop, then presumably they can hop sideways? And just in case you think I'm having a go, I'm just back from a few pints with Doughbouy, and in a teasing mood I'm sort of thinking i don't need to put in that disclaimer, but I've ruined it now anyway

You can talk Marky G!!! You're still trying to get rid of the excess eating you had at Christmas .... Christmas 1998 I mean Yeah I had a pic too. Nice touch I thought. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Not sure what's worse, the pi55 taking, or the sympathy You got no mirrors in your house Mark?

Ours is pretty poor in 2nd gear (or above) from low revs. First gear is so low that the revs are always high. I've cleaned the carb and adjusted it to death. Would be good to hear if anyone else has the same problem, or has found an answer to it. Isn't the engine based on a small crosser, KTM???. Just seems that the engine runs like a small crosser, useless at low revs, then wheeehee all of a sudden!

Thanks, you made my mind up. Sounds like I might just manage the Clubman route.

What's the date for the Jack Wood. And...the big dilemma...which course? Anybody who has ridden the Manx 2 day and/or the lakes 2day compare them to it? Manx 2 day I'm happy with the National route. Lakes 2 day, I would probably die on the National route. Clues anyone? Any other old fat blokes out there? What you riding Perce?

Brave move, but you get nowhere doing nowt The immediate problem you may have is Old Grit farm (maybe). Some of the sections are made more difficult (for the experts) there by being really tight. Get some more of them big trees in lads Although there's enough to lose marks. No problem at Nant Mawr.

The pictures are being posted to me hopefully. Found someone with no web access We're a bit thin on the ground for photographers. Anyway, results attached. Welsh_Championship_06.pdf

Not convinced about the split Timp. We've got enough bloody routes/classes I could be convinced I think by the no-stop. I think things have got out of hand round here. I'd just like to go one way or the other, and if the feeling in Yorkshire is no-stop works, then I can't really argue. It's still possible to do a bit of hopping, for instance when going down hill and doing an endo in to place, very rarely is the front brake solid on, you're usually rolling. The sideways hop is an arguable one as well. Fair enough if both wheels hop sideways, but if we're gonna go mathematical if the front wheel stays still and the back wheel moves to the side, there is no way it can't have gone in a forward direction as well, otherwise pythagoras buggered things up and your bike is now a little bit longer Going off track a bit here I think

I can see both sides of the argument, and both methods can be totally ruined by organisers not marking out sections to suit the rules. The problem I have locally is I'm amrking the trial out and don't know what rules are likely to be observed to. We can hardly tell observers to turn a blind eye to a bit of stopping, if they want to apply the exact rules. On the other hand, when we're struggling for observers, we can't really lay the law down and say "The kid stops, he gets a fe%^&ing 5" Ian's point of view that beginner riders like to be able to scrabble through for a three is valid. The argument that the SSDT does very well as no-stop You don't get many wobblers on the SSDT (Yeah I know - Kinell, there's always an exception ) The Manx 2 day works very well as a non-stop, but same applies. I'm not even sure that the 200 entries at Richmond are particularly turning up for non-stop rules. I rode up at Penn Hill youth only trial in the 70's with 150 riders, and we could roll backwards then. If you're in Yorkshire, and you put some decent sections on, you'll get big entries if you make them ride one handed. There are cases for both, what seems to be giving the problems down here, is giving riders a '1' for stopping (or not). I'm an old fart myself on the expert route. I feel no great disadvantage that I can't hop as good as the young lads, except when a clerk of the course decides he can't get marks off Gary Jenkins without trying to make him ride up his own a***, hopping and bopping everywhere. Hopping and bopping doesn't replace good down to earth riding if the sections are marked out accordingly.

I'd considered it, but decided against it. We have enough trouble trying to keep illegal riders off our venues without it being publicly available. I'm not being arsy there by the way I put ours on our web site during the lead up to a trial, but no real desire to make them known globally, just in case.

I've got a worry in my mind about any sort of time limit. Very difficult to police. One observers 3 seconds could be anothers 5. You have the same dilemma over a 4 second stop. Was it 3, or was it 4, or 5. In the riders memory it will be shorter, in the observers maybe longer. Has someone got a good argument against just allowing (at least) feet up stops without penalty. The argument of timewasting can be got round by a swift warning from the observer, followed by a 5, no problem. I'm actually interested to hear what arguments there are against this, not denying that there might be some. It seems to me that it would clear up one major area of concern.

I think it'll be tomorrow. Graham Evans is doing them. I'll shove them on here when he sends them over, and on www.trialspace.co.uk on the Welsh Championship page. Didn't bump in to you today. Guessed you were number 94 and kept my eyes peeled but the sweat was obscuring the vision

Observed this year at Hawkestone. I know what you mean, but I prefer their rules. I almost daren't suggest that there should be another set of rules. I think that's what's stopping them getting sorted out for normal club trials. Nobody wants to complicate it any more than the FIM do every year.

Bloody hell, the boy Bou is good.

For me, this is a problem that keeps coming up. I think a few people fell fowl of it today. The marking in our area is generally very slack with regard to giving a one for stopping. I can count on one hand the number of ones I've had in the past few years for stopping (Before anyone says anything, yes that's about six ). One in South Wales, one in the Midlands (infact every time I dabbed my brake I could hear the bloke counting ), and a couple locally (one of them today). The trouble is when so few people actually observe the rule, it comes as a shock to some people when it's actually used. I think the Welsh Championship is one place it comes up, because the view is, this is the Welsh Championship, it should be marked tightly. I'm not whinging by the way, I have no doubt whatsoever that according to the rules I had a dab, and it made bugger all difference to my useless ride anyway . I have to admit I don't actually agree with it if you're stood up balanced, for a couple of seconds, who cares, that's skillful. It seems to me it was brought in years ago, for the sake of some prima donna riders. Surely we could just give the observer the right to warn the rider for timewasting if people take the mickey. "No timewasting please, there's a 5 on the way". Maybe it should be different if you're stopped with your foot down??? Dunno??? Certainly, in our area, the number of people observing the rule I would guess at about 5%, so if it's not working, why do we still have it? If the rule's there we should be able to use it. If it's not workable, then shouldn't we get rid??? Any views????