dadof2

Second gear is nearly always the first to suffer this problem (not just on Betas). It is the gear that gets a lot of use, a lot of rushed engagements from neutral or second and it is the gear selector that most likely to get forced when the bike is dropped. Have someone else ride your bike and see if the problem still happens. Engage second whilst the engine is stopped and the bike is rocked back and forth, then start the bike and see if it still drops out. If it drops out under load whilst pulling steadily and hard it is likely worn dogs / dog holes If it drops out under light load, throttle on / off conditions it is likely selector What oil type and viscosity are you using? At least Beta engines are dead easy to strip if you need to.

If anyone thinks trials is in a bad way and and is looking for a way to improve it, try completing the GPDA survey, intended to get F1 fans opinions. What a pile of shyte!!!!

I think you need to post more info At a guess it means there is a class that rides 50% on the hard route, 50% on the easy route. Similar to green route.

Which gear does it jump into second from? Could you be catching it with your foot? There are rumours that Beta changed the selector fork design and material for 2014 but I have not checked with Beta if this is true or not. It is the case that you are not the only rider to have this problem but in another 2 cases of which I have direct experience putting different riders on the bikes (myself included) solved the problem and then it did not re occur when the original owners got back on the bike and were a bit more positive when engaging gear. The problem (following applies not to just beta) can be caused by slack in the gear change mechanism (loose rivet on Beta), faulty selector spring, damaged dogs on the gears, damage to or debris in the holes where the dogs engage, bent selector forks, selector forks binding on selector shaft, too thick oil or selector drum indent mechanism not working correctly. One one occasion (KTM 2T MX) I found the cause was a lump of silicone RTV had gone into the dog hole in the gear preventing proper engagement. The rider continued to ride the bike with it jumping out of gear and rounded of the dogs and hole edges completely trashing these and other gears.

Plus rider training in the rules I assume we have all purchased an enviromat for refuelling

Exactly what knowledge do I lack? Quite frankly WTC has become such a hotbed of bending the rules it is pretty near pointless. Everyone knows Bou is the best, stop or no stop, so why keep wasting money and upsetting observers trailing this so called world championship round a few countries with hardly anyone watching. I gave Nord View a miss last year so was thinking of going both Sat and Sun this year but now won't be bothering. I would rather watch the locals at a Lancs evening trial, the foods cheaper as well. Give me the smell of Castrol R at the Blencarn classic scramble anyday.

Biff, you seem to have contracted the misquotation disease from Nigel, you have my sincerest condolences. You missed the key words "very recent" I included very recent because within the last 2 years or so I have not been involved in trying to obtain credit insurance, however I was fully familiar with its workings from the late 1980s until well after the crash (when it effectively disappeared). Bearing in mind the current levels of debt , both national, corporate and individual I would think it unlikely that credit insurance is readily available at the level needed to buy GG. Some insurance against bad debt for relatively small amounts such as up to a few £1000s is readily available. "The banks are at fault and there were no contracts. Right?" From about 2002 it was pretty obvious to anyone who chose not to ignore basic economics that debt both government and individual was getting out of hand. What was not so clear was that banks were allowing the ratio of risky lending : secure lending + capital to get out of hand also. Then some of the debts go totally bad and the whole lot collapses because there is no real money. Governments print money and buy banks to stop the whole plot sinking completely. Putting it simply the fallout from this is that credit becomes nearly impossible to get even for a sound business venture. Because of the drop in demand the oil price starts to fall. For example take a company who supplies equipment to an oil refinery. They have to lay out a lot of money on materials, labour and transport before they get paid. If the end user goes bust before they pay the supplier, the supplier looses a lot of money and maybe goes bust also. To protect against this supplier would often take out insurance so they got paid by the insurer if the customer went bust. When the crash happened this insurance became near impossible or too costly to obtain. This in turn meant firms could not risk making goods for contracts where they might not get paid. The firm then had insufficient work and laid workers off. This means the government lost income tax,Possibly VAT and corporation tax right when it needed tax receipts the most. The laid off workers don't have money to buy other manufacturers goods and the lot snowballs into a recession. How does this affect GG future? Very briefly, Debt is still high and needs to be much lower before people feel free to spend on unnecessary items such as GGs. Credit is hard to get hold of and who is going to put money into what has already proved to be a financial disaster. That is why if GG is to be resurrected it needs someone who has plenty of money and is not necessarily looking to make a return (certainly not in the short term) on their investment. Vertigo has shown what can be done from scratch, so why bother buying an existing design?

200 kg bikes?

I have no very recent experience of credit insurance or the very similar contract payment payment guarantee schemes but very shortly after the start of the bank led crash such insurance became very difficult or impossible to obtain, this worsened the recession because firms were not willing to enter contacts, particularly for exported goods without such insurance. This was particularly serious in the oil industry / refining supply chain because it was accompanied by a huge drop in the oil price. ND Just because I cannot be bothered to spend time going over the same issue again and again, and often having to correct your misquotes does not mean I am wrong, it just means I cannot be bothered. Take what I said about KTM. I said "some suggest KTM may be interested" I did not state as a fact KTM are interested. I Know full well KTM said they were not interested about Easter, I then went on to suggest why KTM probably are not interested, they can just copy it. The KTM rumour did start again about 3 weeks ago when the failure of GG to secure a deal with its creditors was finally acknowledged in the GG press release.

Stator photo shows a trigger device. Should have an advance curve similar to your Techno. The advance takes place electronically takes place in the CDI unit.

No, but I have never been to the moon either and I have a fair idea what goes on there. Perhaps the reason I have not replied to your other points is because I can't be bothered. Regarding my last sentence the normal financial reason to make an investment is ROCE. This is unlikely with GG and therefore an investor must have another reason.

I think the 07 125 was the last Beta with fixed timing so your 08 250 should have a timing curve of some sort, certainly not the lack of variation you have. Trials bikes timing curves are a bit strange in that the timing is not set to give peak power or best economy, they are set to give a certain torque curve and softish controllable power. Can you post a photo of your stator?

Are there a heap of 4T GG trials bikes somewhere? As I wrote this is just a rumour I heard. I was told it came from a driver who was collecting or delivering something at GG factory. The rumour is he saw several rows of complete 4Ts, maybe 40 or 50 bikes. I clearly said it was a rumour when I posted, just wondered if anyone else had heard it or knew anything. ND read the last line of what I posted again carefully (not what you misquoted it as) and you will probably no longer need to ask what it means. Who said the debts are now actually 40 million E? It seems each time the debts are mentioned someone adds another few million E. I read somewhere the debts were about 23 million E to the banks and investors, plus about another 10 million E they owe to suppliers but its perfectly fair to say I have no means of knowing if the figures are accurate or verifying them. The internet is a wonderful thing but it does allow inaccurate information to circulated very fast, and passed on as if it is fact. Its not that long ago several people with intimate knowledge (with hindsight possibly not) of GG were saying the stop in production was just a temporary halt while a bit of refinancing took place, that turned out to be completely true did it not? When the gate drops the bullshat stops and if your aunt had balls, she'd be your uncle (old MX proverb)

Since you have a fair bit of mechanical experience a look through the forums on TC should alert you to any problems bikes are likely to have, after that its just the sort of check you would give any bike and does it all work and sound OK on a test ride. Where are you? there are not that many parts of UK without trials.

Obviously when Honda developed the 4Rt they were looking for something to compete with 2Ts at the highest level and just as in MX this means making a 4t that can rev. Building an engine that can rev compromises its low rev performance (unless you add the complexity of V.V.T. and lift). I can quite happily rev a 4T very highly and have done so in MX, but when it comes to trials my formative riding years were when you rode clutch out in as higher gear as possible to maintain grip and stability. It would probably increase its appeal to a number of riders, myself included if a 4Rt could be set up to be ridden in this manner.

Corrosion and "crud" build up around the back of the master cylinder piston can cause this. As the problem occurred following the bike not being used for a long time corrosion is quite likely. Check the fill port in the master cylinder is clear, you will need a very fine needle to do this. 5 mm movement sounds adequate, on rebuild you have'nt missed out somethign?, I don't want to insult your mechanical ability but anyone can make a mistake.

To get back a bit near the original question "What,s going on with GG". Well it seems the factory is being emptied and all the assets sold to try to pay something to the creditors. There are rumours that there may be quite a few new 4 stroke GGs somewhere. Its also been written that GGs Debts are more like 33 million Euros, not 23 million. Who now owns the GG brand name and any patents, and what is someone prepared to pay to own them? Some suggest KTM are interested, some say Israeli investors. Does GG have anything anyone cannot get hold of by other means, apart from the name the answer is no. KTM could strip a gasser, copy it and improve it in the process. The trials market is not healthy and two new (Vertigo & TRS) cannot be far off launching very competitive products. Given the above circumstances someone will have to have more than the normal financial justification for making such an investment.

Absolutely nothing to do with Raga's financing, accidentally posted in the wrong place but since it got a quick reply I chose not to edit it out.

If you post where you live it is near certain someone will be able to tell you where you can get test rides.

Pure (distilled) water is probably the best coolant because of its high specific heat capacity (4200J/kg/degreeC) but you can't use it pure or your engine will corrode. Anitfreeze, in addition to stop the water freezing contains additives to prevent corrosion and prevent the formation of insulating micro bubbles on hot surfaces, this improves heat transfer / heat flow. A product called "Water Wetter" improved this wetting action and improved cooling, The products like putoline Ice probably contain similar additives. OAT (orange) Organic Acid Technology antifreeze contains these additives and is very effective at preventing corrosion. Its also a lot cheaper than these specialist coolants. Do not mix different coolant types, and I would even go as far as to advise against mixing brands (except BS6580 ethylene glycol). Mixing incompatible coolant can form gums and sludge and wreck your engine.

Its a bit of a generalisation to say Northern bikes will have had a harder life, but on balance there are more rocky trials in the North and bikes may get a bit more bashing. The state of the sump guard and undersides / sides of the swinging arm is a good guide. Don't buy the first bike you see, get a good look at a few and take someone with you who knows about trials bikes. Off road mart on Trials central Classifieds in TMX

Does the noise change when you pull the clutch in? Is it knocking or a sort of chuckling, pinging noise?

BP5ES is the most common plug for liquid trials bikes ridden normally (not hard) An iridium plug (more expensive) will in theory make it start easier and run better but you probably will not notice the difference. A correctly set up bike should work fine on a BP5ES

Yes, could have been a Honda engine. I just wondered if it was Baldiocks as he lists an SWM.

I have only ridden a 4Rt on a limited number of sections and on those did not find the high tickover to be a problem. Its just that if I were to ride a 4T I would prefer it to have a lower tickover say 800 to 1200 RPM. If you adjust a 4RT down to this it can be prone to unexpected stalling. Some think this is due to the capacitor EFI, my guess is valve overlap and flywheel weight are also factors. Its not that there is anything "wrong" with a high tickover, especially if you have never known anything different. Its just a preference thing.