woody

If you're interested in buying a Gollner Kawasaki KT250 I know of one for sale. It's a runner, needs a bit of work, has been painted all black, but is all there except the bash plate. If you're interested telephone Colin on 01543 672759

Agree entirely that we all ride for the enjoyment of it and if these sort of bikes are accepted at club level then no problem. But when it comes to competing in a championship for a specific type of machine, car or bike or whatever, then there have to be some rules governing eligibilty, otherwise there is no point in having a championship for said type of machine is there?. So can I take my 4RT, put twinshocks on it and ride in the Eastern Thumpers 4 stroke only trial at the end of the year, or the Talmag, as it is the latest evolution of a 4 banger. With reference to the Scorpa 4 stroke, I can't see any problem with them competing in air-cooled mono class. It is an air cooled mono.... I think they are a cracking little bike but can't see they have any significant advantage over older air cooled monos. But the problem is this. It's all very well to say we only ride for fun, but people are naturally competitive wether they admit it or not, some more so than others and if they don't win their class, even at an insignificant club event, they will look for something to blame rather than admit they were simply beaten by someone better. In the case of the 4 stroke Scorpa they will blame that as it is more modern and say it gives the rider an unfair advantage. But if anyone is riding one who doesn't win, then they won't pay them any attention or moan about them.

Godden uses standard TY bushes, still available from Yam dealers as are the steel end caps and seals. Only difference is the Godden swing arm is slightly narrower width at the spindle end, so the steel tube that the spindle runs in is shortened also. These aren't available any longer so don't lose it.

Well I know everyone is different and I am pretty much for the 'each to their own' philosophy when it comes to peoples hobbies, choices etc. but I just can't see the point or desire to convert monos to twinshocks and ride them in a twinshock class when there are plenty of good, reasonably priced twinshock bikes available if it is a twinshock class people want to ride in. Why convert a mono when there are now classes for air-cooled monos, but also, when air-cooled monos are still very competitive against modern bikes in club trials even now. It's not as if there is a shortage of trials for which those bikes are suitable. Chris Myers still rides the Scottish Six Day on his TY Mono and gets a very very respectable result. If people want to do it and individual clubs allow them to be ridden, either in or outside of twinshock class/awards then that's fine. I just don't understand it. But the twinshock class really came about as a lot of people in the mid 80s were fed up with the direction trials was taking, tight sections, stop, hop trick riding. Then came the stationary balancing which was like watching paint dry. Most trials back then still only had one route and the older twinshocks in particular were unsuitable for modern sections, so fortunately, the ACU introduced the National Pre65 and Twinshock series, supported initially by Sebac. This enabled riders who preferred the old style of no-stop riding to drag out their old bikes, the ones they had an affinity with and rode when new, and ride them competitively again on sections designed for them. It was a fantastic series and very well supported with all manner of bikes being ridden. Now the key phrase there is 'the bikes people had an affinity with and rode when new'. That was what the spirit of twinshocks was about. Riders who were too old to change to modern technique, or not good enough, or who just didn't want to were able to ride again on the bike they favoured from that era, either one that they rode at the time, or one that they would like to have ridden but never owned, or whatever, but you get the picture. You rode it because you had some sort of affinity with it. Some still owned a twinshock that they rode at the time and competed again on it. The crux of it was you rode a twinshock because you enjoyed that style of riding and the look/character of the bikes. They weren't perfect though and as far as modifying them is concerned, there was plenty of that going on during their era. Majesty Yams for example came in so many guises. Supported riders bikes had modified steering, suspension, engines whilst some 'over the counter to Joe Bloggs' Majesties just had the basic changes. Most manufacturers or importers were moving rear shocks all over the place, there were aftermarket frame kits, exhaust mods, reed valve conversions were done on Ossas by Keith Horsman for Ossa UK as long ago as 1975, wheels and forks were swopped around etc etc. So there is nothing wrong in modifying them now - up to a point. The difficulty is knowing what that point is, as wherever someone draws a line, someone else will find a way around it. Most competitors in the ACU Classic accept the limit and where to draw the line and are happy to keep it that way - at the moment anyway. So fitting electronic ignitions, different forks, shocks, altering head angles and rear shock mounts is nothing new. It is still the original twinshock bike and a heavy lump compared to more modern stuff. I've ridden in the National twinshock championship since it began and there are no twinshocks competing in that, at the moment, that are modified to what any of us 'regulars' would call an unreasonable standard. I don't think fitting say a 303 Fantic engine in a 240/300 gives any real advantage, Paioli forks are better for sure, but a significant advantage, no, I don't think so. Electronic ignition doesn't make it go any better, it's just maintenance free and less hassle. Steering angles, shock positioning is just to suit personal taste. I've never heard any of the regulars complain about other competitors carrying out these mods, but none are in favour of disc brakes or converting monos to ride as twinshocks. Ask anyone what they think of Tim Wheeler's conversion to his Yam and they will just say it is done purely to gain an advantage over twinshocks and to win the class in that centre. I haven't met anyone yet who thinks it is acceptable and I know people complain about it to each other but never to the club officials. Bottom line is, they think it is a cheat bike. If people want to convert monos to twinshocks and ride them in a specials class, I can't see a problem with them having a class of their own. I still don't see the point but as I said earlier, each to their own. The opinion I've voiced here on the subject is obviously my own, but I can also say it is the opinion of a lot of others too. Feetupfun has some good points in his post. I'm also aware that my Majesty has been called a cheat bike but the last thing I am is dishonest and the mods were carried out to personalise the bike, not create a fiddle one. There is nothing hidden and it is what I'd have done to one at the time if I'd been able to but I didn't have the facilities so it was easier to buy something that suited me better. But I always wanted one and now I've got one I did what I would have done then. Quicker steering, longer swingarm, electronic ignition, better forks, different exhaust. Yes I used a Yam mono swingarm shortened but that was because I wanted a box section one (as I hate the original one's shape) I can't make one myself but have got just enough ability to shorten the mono one to fit. It's no advantage coming from a mono, it's still just two sticks of metal to the back wheel and the shock position is unaltered, it's just 1 and a half inches longer than sandard. The 'works' Majesties had revavled forks as TY forks are useless, under sprung and under damped. Again, I didn't have the expertise to revavle mine, tried and failed, so was going to fit a pair of marzocchis (Fantic, Armstrong etc) but I had some mono forks. They are no better than marzocchis but look nicer and have the neater mudguard brace, so I used them instead. I couln't get the original Majesty or Fantic type wheels to fit so had to use the mono wheels. Braking performance is no better than the standard wheels and I'd never use them again on anything else as you can't get spokes anymore. In terms of fiddle performance - Different people have ridden it. One didn't like the steering, one didn't like the front weight bias, another hated the motor, some like most of it but not everything. The point here is no-one has jumped off it and said - it's too good, it's a fiddle bike not in the spirit of it. And that is my point. It's still a big heavy lump of a twinshock, just tweaked to suit me. A mono Yam with twinshocks will murder it. I couldn't agree more with your suggestion Mattylad, that there should be a class for pre76 twinshocks (or maybe pre75) I would love to see this introduced in the ACU Classic but it would need 2 routes also, something the series needs right now anyway. I don't see a problem with a specials class for the converted monos either, other than the number of classes we'll end up with but the ACU might. As regards the mono Ossa I can't see how they can be excluded from the twinshock class as, like you say, that was their era and they were the bikes they were ridden against. I don't think they were actually that much better anyway. They should qualify purely on the basis that they were fitted with twin shock absorbers as original manufacture anyway. They were converted here in the UK...... PS Mattylad - do you want to sell your SWM as I know someone who may be interested. He was looking at the one on ebay a few months back and was interested but was involved in a house move then. Wasn't yours was it?

You don't say whether it is the 175 or the 250 model but for either, I don't believe it is just a simple bolt on job. Unfortunately, neither do I know what is involved to make the DT ignition fit, if it is possible. I do know though, that a TY Mono stator can be used on the TY250 twinshock, using the twinshock flywheel and the mono CDI and coil. The mono flywheel won't fit the twinshock crank. People have done this. I had a 250 Majesty running once with a mono stator but then Craig Mawlam brought out the electronic ignition for the twinshock Yams so I bought one of those instead. From memory, I had to to elongate the mounting slots in the mono stator to achieve something like the correct timing, although it was trial and error for static timing as the timing mark on the mono stator is of no use on the twinshock. Once running a strobe can be used to set new TDC and timing marks. Depends on budget I guess but the easiest solution is to get the electronic ignition off Craig as it is just bolt on using the existing flywheel and is available for 175 or 250 engines. Cost is about

Yes it can be done, as Martin said, Tim Wheeler did it to his, as have a couple of others. But the question is why would you want to..?? You're kidding yourself if you think of it as a twinshock. Even with the mono removed and twinshocks added, it is far superior to any proper twinshock and will p*ss all over them in terms of performance, so could you take any satisfaction in any results you achieved on it against actual twinshocks. Not sure how Herefordshire Classic would look on it either If the other clubs don't run an air-cooled mono class does it really matter? Just ride the route that suits you. A mono Yam is still good enough to win the hard route in a lot of club trials (please note that's club, not centre or national before anyone jumps in and says that's B*****ks) As far as the ACU goes, it is only the national ACU Classic championship that has the 'must be twinshock as original manufacture' and 'no disc brake' rules. At club level it's up to individual clubs what they allow, but I'm with Martin - it's not in the spirit of the class. Once a few more people do it where does it stop. Monts, Gassers, Betas, all converted to ride as twinshocks..?

You could also try Dave Renham at Bultaco UK as I've noticed he has recently had new Ossa parts (seat cover, silencer etc) for sale on ebay, so maybe he knows of a contact or parts supplier in Spain.

Very nice indeed, lovely job. These bikes are just crying out for a Pre74 or 75 class in the ACU Classic series. They don't stand a chance against the more modern stuff with good riders on board but it would be great to see them able to compete in a class of their own on an easier route. Enough are being sold on ebay, as are Ossas and Mont 247.

I had one from new and broke the gearbox by hitting a big rock step hard with the sump. I was told at the time it wasn't too uncommon for this to happen. What broke with the shock of the impact was a pin, or pins, on the selector drum which engaged with the fork so that the gearbox would no longer select. My mate had to tow me back up the valley with his 242 Mont. Nightmare... it had to be the bottom section, never the top one by the carpark. So it may be worth checking that this isn't the cause of the gearbox problem when you have it apart. Parts are hard to find for Armstrongs. A possible source of used spares is Ellastone off road as they have broken these in the past. Last time I was there they had a complete bike (310 though, not 320) but the forks were gone on that too. However, forks are common with just about anything else at the time as they all used marzzochis and Grimeca front hubs. Motor on 310 is the same I think, apart from the obvious difference in capacity, maybe the ignition is too but I'n no expert on these. Someone has posted elsewhere that a Kawasaki jet ski piston will fit as Hiro items are like hen's teeth You've a bit of a task ahead to sort it but you don't see many of them around any more so would be nice if you do get it done. Good luck.

Not just the trial that was cancelled either. I've ridden in this event for the last 7 years or so and it's a thoroughly enjoyable weekend. Take a non trials riding mate with me and our road bikes as well and make a long weekend of it, belting up and down the mountain twisties on Friday and Monday, trial for me Sat/Sun. This year a second mate was coming also who was looking forward to seeing a trial for the first time as well as thrashing his Blade (ooer missus) As everything was already booked before the cancellation, ferry, hotel, insurance etc. etc. we decided to go anyway for a holiday. We always see lots of historic rally cars pass through the area as there is a classic hill climb or rally in the area on the same weekend so thought we would take a look at the rally whilst there. Sadly not. This had also been cancelled by the same officialdom, as had a local enduro. What really p*ssed Joel off was that after last year's cancellation, he had sought assurances that this year's event could run and had therefore put a lot of hard work into setting out the course. A week before the event and everything was still ok, then 3 days before the event they withdraw permission leaving Joel to try and contact all competitors with the joyous news it was off. Some people had already turned up. No consideration whatsoever that people travel from Italy, Switzerland, Germany and UK every year for this event. All locals we spoke to whilst there thought it was a crazy decision to cancel but there is obviously someone with some influence in the area who doesn't like motorsport of a 2 or 4 wheeled nature. I hope they live the rest of their life happy with the dissapointment they brought to a lot of people. There seem to be more and more of this ilk these days whose sole and selfish intentions are to stop others from pursuing activities, of any nature, that they enjoy. Given that this is 2 years in a row he has had to cancel it I guess it is doubtful it will be run again, so another longstanding event will probably dissapear from the calendar

For improving the drum brake efficiency, see the Honda thread as there is something in there under 'tlr brakes' (or some such title) where it has been suggested to use car paint 2 pack hardener/activator on the shoes. Searching the Honda forum using any of those words should find the thread for you. I wouldn't worry too much if they aren't good enough for stoppies etc. as none of the sections require absolute stopping power and most of the later twinshocks have more than adequate brakes for the sections. There are none of the stop dead, flick the back and ride back up your own @rse type sections found in modern trials.

Just in case you don't know, disc brakes aren't permitted in the ACU Classic, drums only. Phil Wiffen is leading the series on a 300 at the moment.

Bill Pye knows more about Fantics than I do, but I remember the Michaud replica when it was introduced, as a friend of mine had one from new, but the only difference in the colour scheme was that the petrol tank covers were white instead of red. Frame was still red, definitely not white. Thw power delivery was claimed to be softer than the standard bike but no other differences as I recall

Rubbish - the Mont gets up anything the other bikes do in WTC Outdoors and stuff that others couldn't at Hawkstone last year according to those that were there. Indoor sections I agree with you but we're not talking about that circus act. Besides that I can't see it has anything to do with snappy power. They hold the things on full revs and fire them off the clutch. When it's on full revs, the way the power is delivered off tickover doesn't really count for much. The 2-strokes rev higher. Doug is also a fair bit heavier than Raga which makes a much bigger difference than the fact that the GasGas is a few pounds lighter.

Think of it this way. Good forks/yokes =

Don't understand how you can say the 4RT is at best in development. No-one other than a WTC rider can say whether a bike is good enough for what they require and none of us on this forum or of that standard so how can we draw that conclusion. If said it himself then fair enough. It won WTC rounds last year with both Doug and Fuji, and Fuji has won one this year. If Raga was running away with the series winning every round by a significant margin I'd agree with you but he isn't. Five different winners so far this year? Seems to be rider errors (generally) by all of them that is costing them wins rather than one of them being consistently ahead. It only needs Doug to win one and Raga to have an off day and it could be all square again. Raga is nowhere near as far ahead of the others as Doug used to be - he regularly slaughtered them indoors and out. Can't see Raga dominating like that. And the other point about the 4RT is that Doug lost his championship to Fuji on the 315 so a 4 stroke wasn't at fault there, so no guarantee he would be doing any better now on the 315 or other marque. Comparison to Rossi? His record, talent and commitment are every bit a match for Rossi. Doug was winning on Beta, switched to Montesa and carried on winning. But he doesn't sulk and hide away from cameras when he's put in a duff performance. Rossi is a brilliant rider but still needs equal or better machinery to win, just like Schumacher. The Yamaha is a good bike and Yamaha performed miracles giving him a competitive bike to start his campaign with them. He wasn't riding the same duff bike that they used the season before, it was completely reworked before he rode it. We've seen he can't make a duff bike work this year with some of his results, just like Schumacher last year. Now it's working again he's back at the front. I really hope he can do it but it is going to be a tough job and there are still others firmly in the equation too as they will all take points of each other if the topsy-turvy results continue. I guess in about 10 years time, when his Honda Montesa days are firmly behind him, is when we may learn the truth about what he feels now as to whether the 4RT is up to it or not

Simon Bateman at Nametab in Redditch does an electronic ignition. I've got one for my Villiers but haven't tried it properly yet, only fired the bike up with it. It looks as though it could be made by the same people making the Majesty and Bultaco ignitions (I don't know if it is or not, it's just a very similar looking setup in terms of source coil and HT Coil/CDI Unit) With the Villiers ignition he will take your backplate in exchange and supply a modified one to take the new stator plate. It will work with the existing Villiers flywheel. Can't remember the price off the top of my head but give him a ring and he will tell you what is involved and cost etc. Bultaco/Majesty ignitions are about

Yes, it's a great site - I've spent many hours dribbling over the bikes on there. Just found another couple of pictures of a '97 TYZ but the decals on the tank cover and frame are the same. Maybe a bit clearer than the brochure pic

It was the first the one with the white tank cover/blue mudguards and boost thingy on the exhaust manifold. Should be a picture on here if the link works... TYZ pics

If you're riding in those trials then you'll have no problem with the hard route of the Miller series on the Ossa. It would also be ok in the ACU Classic rounds too. I've ridden them for years on my '74 Ossa MAR 250 and '75 310 and they have been capable of handling the sections. I only swapped to my Majesty this year as everyone else was on modern twinshocks and the Majesty put me on a par with them in terms of machinery. The most important thing though is that the bike is functioning properly. If the engine and suspension are in good order the bike will be fine for the series, if you're having to compensate for a knackered engine or poor suspension, then the sections in the ACU Classic will make things difficult. Although the later twinshocks are better bikes, the Ossa can still get decent results against them, you just have to work at it a bit harder...... Next Classic round is Mansfield Maun on 18 June - still time to get an entry in if you fancy a go.

Yes, I'd agree with that, a very good event. Nothing daft but not easy either, sections of just the right severity that they could all be cleaned but it would take a damn good ride to do it each time as just one little slip off line was punished. Good job by the Lancs County team. Wish we had sections/terrain like that down here.....

Sections usually are fairly easy, enough to take a few marks from the winner but nothing daft. Difficult to give you an idea of what to expect without knowing what trials/route you ride. However, there are two, maybe three routes, so one of them will suit - unless of course you're a centre expert in which case you'll get bored... The severity of the the hard route is nowhere near as difficult as the ACU Classic series (which is one route) I've done a couple of Miller rounds to test chamges to my bike and they are an enjoyable ride out if you enjoy the traditional type event of 1 lap, 30 - 40 sections. Most I think are of this format and most if not all include roadwork, maybe the odd round that is all off road now, but I believe roadwork was one of Sammy's criteria for a club to stage a round. 1977 Ossa is fine as there is a class now for twinshocks of any kind. As a guide, the 1977 Ossa would easily cope with the hard route. Don't worry too much about Ossa brakes as the sections don't require you to stop dead down banks and then turn up your own @rse. Next event is on 11th June I think, organised by Rhayader club. Could be one of the more challenging rounds of the series as they generally put on good events (Classic Experts, Welsh Trophy)

They aren't on sale in the UK until July at the earliest I believe. The 10 that are here at the moment are for dealers to demo them but one person managed to buy one outright somehow.

Yes, I'm going but it is a shame to see less and less twinshocks and pre65 bikes at these rounds. Less than half the entry at this one on old bikes for what should be a Classic championship. I'm not against the mix of classes but just hope the actual 'classics' aren't eventually squeezed out by sections becoming more suited to the modern bikes. This series badly needs 2 routes now. Championship and support.

Pete had an ad in TMX a couple of weeks ago but I don't have it to hand at the moment. Contact details were in it. The new Rockshocks are a new design, not exact remakes of the old ones, just for your info. New design makes DIY 'fiddling' a lot easier.