woody

How does money, more public interest and TV solve the problem of only half a dozen riders being capable of tackling WTC sections? Personally I don't give two ticks for what goes on in WTC but the problems as I see them are that riding techniques and bikes have advanced so far that there are only a few people who are ever going to master the techniques required to tackle those sections with any degree of success. The rules are a joke, they aren't enforced properly, most outdoor sections that I've seen on TV coverage resemble indoor type - man-made, big rocks and rev splat, rev splat over and over again - public are really going to take to that, it's like watching the same section over and over with the exception of a couple of rounds. Poland and Hawkstone where they had something resembling sections. If it went back to proper no-stop and the rules were enforced correctly, perhaps they could get back towards more natural type sections where the riders actually ride their bikes instead of hopping around like demented frogs. Sections would be less extreme, still very hard as befits a world championship but would at least offer some variety, mistakes would be penalised by losing marks as they wouldn't be able to hop their way out of trouble and more riders could take part. Ban minders - whatever happened to man and machine against the terrain - and leave the riders to sort their own lines out and get through sections without continual outside assistance. It will never happen of course as that original concept of one no-stop attempt at a section is no longer fashionable and doesn't fit with today's circus - not posey enough - but is the circus ruunning out of performers - and will anyone care in due course In the 70s, 80s and 90s, WTC enjoyed healthy entries without the need for big name sponsorship and TV so why does it need it now?

Can't really say which route you should ride as I don't know what standard rider you are. There is nothing silly (or shouldn't be) on the hard route so I'd suggest you go for that. If you find it's too much after a few sections, change to the easy route and tell the organisers what you've done at the end of the event and to scrub you from the class results. You've still had a ride out and will know the type of trials to expect at future rounds and which class to enter. As regards your bike, an 83 SWM's capability will way exceed anything in the Miller series sections so no mods or updating are required. Just ensure it's in good fettle for a reliable and trouble free day. Disc brakes are not allowed in either of the national classic series and aren't needed anyway, the sections don't involve stopping and turning up your own @rse. Be nice to see the SWM out as they rarely make an appearance in the classic rounds. Must be the pernod blue frame if it's an 83 - nice.

You're right - it's the design...... If you are on full revs in a big gear, muddy slots, muddy climbs etc. and slipping the clutch, regular type sections here, they wail and shriek like a banshee. So did my 98 315

John, what about doing what you're doing in the ACU Classic to reiterate the no-stop rule. Just re-emphasise on entry forms, regs, ACU web page etc. that non-standard Brit bikes must enter the specials/twinshock class, if they don't the organisers have the right to switch them to that class when compiling the results. It's up to the riders to then enter the correct class at the outset. It's not really an issue for me as I only ride the odd one or two and I'm not interested in the championship but it would be a shame to see the series suffering from poor entries next year, if this is the issue. A bit of publicity on the website or in TMX to remind people what the series is about may encourage riders back into it. The specials have the ACU Classic when all is said and done. Right, that's my lunchtime just about used up......

Don't be put off by the comments. They're not intended as negative about the events themselves, they are good. It all depends on your own perspective of course of what you look for in an event, but this series allows you to enjoy a good ride around for a few hours taking in some wonderful scenery and using sections that won't damage you are the bike, instead of 4 laps of 10 in a field and home for lunch. If you're on a twinshock you should be in the same class as British specials, which is essentially all the modified bikes using modern parts. If it is results you're bothered about a twinshock is able to compete with these bikes, it's just down to who's riding them. If you're not bothered about results then it doesn't matter what you're competing against, you just go out and enjoy yourself. Personally, I think more people are bothered about results than let on, which is where the gripes of 'how can I win against that - it's in the wrong class' come into play. If everyone wasn't bothered and were just 'out to enjoy the ride rround, the result doesn't matter', there would be no complaints..... Just enter the first one next year, coax and cajole some mates into doing it with you and make your own decision on the event based on your experience. It's the only way really but I can't see you won't enjoy it - unless you're looking for hard sections, then you need the ACU Classic.

Yes, can't disagree with anything you've said there. I'm just confused as to why the events aren't better supported when the riders are out there. Hopefully there will be a influx of new twinshock riders next year judging by feedback on this and other threads but what is wrong in the pre65 classes? The very few events I've ridden are of a gentle nature in the main - one or two sections on the hard route at the Greensmith were maybe a tad ambitious for some bike/rider combinations - but generally the severity seems to me to be of the right standard. Surely if you can get one of those monstrous pre65 outfits round the easy route then it is going to be ok for a solo rider of limited ability no matter what the machine. Or is it that some riders just refuse to ride an 'easy' route - maybe? I still can't help thinking it is because they see the specials in the pre65 class and won't ride it because the sections are put on for them. Wrong, they're not, they are rideable on a standard bike, the bigger the bike, just go onto the easier route. Or is it because they think if the riders on the specials were on standard bikes it would level the playing field and they may have a chance of winning the class in the odd event as the others no longer enjoy a bike advantage. Wrong again, the better riders are the ones who have the specials generally, so they will still win on a standard bike. If any of you are reading this thread and are thinking that you can't compete on a standard(ish) bike then think again, you can, just pick the correct route for you, go out and enjoy a good old-fashioned road based trial. As John says, they are not going to be around for ever and you'll miss out when they're gone. And take some mates with you as well - you must have some who have old bikes lying in the shed just screaming to be thrown up the sections again.

So it was yours then - very nice. Mr Renham had to peel me off it. Told him it was about time he had some class on that stand.... Loved the original ally guards and stays. Been looking for some of them for years. Show overall was poorly represented again for trials. Only one dealer (I think) in <mention of this company is not permitted on Trials Central>. GasGas and Beta had stands, Scorpa had their full range on the D3 stand (SY175 looks nice in yellow) Sherco weren't there. Honda didn't have a 4RT on their stand, Kawasaki have 2 new enduro bikes just released but didn't have them, Honda only had one of theirs. No Husaberg, no Husqvarna stands. As usual, if you're into motocross and motocross gear (bloody loads of it) you were catered for Roll on the Classic dirt bike show

I understand what you mean about the 'standard' bike situation and retiring riders but this shouldn't affect the number of entries at the Miller rounds. There is a class for specials and standard bikes but both are poorly supported at the moment. However, the recent Classic Experts had 87 entries, majority pre65 of one sort or another. So the riders are out there, the Miller rounds aren't as hard as the Experts, so why is it poorly supported - by both twinshocks and Brits? Possibly because riders who used to support it think it has now been invaded by specials and twinshocks and the sections are set to suit those bikes. Not the case though, there are still 2 routes and even the hard route sections are still quite 'gentle'. Emphasising that specials must ride in the specials class may help convince riders to give it another try.

Where you are, probably not, but in the muddy old UK, water and mud regularly gets splashed up over the bike, straight through those holes to the vicinity of the intake, well before the submarine impersonations begin...

Agree totally that this series needs rescuing before it dies off through lack of support but must admit I don't much understand Brit bike classes. With my limited knowledge of the structure, what you're proposing is to just change the Specials and twinshock class and to split them into their own classes, which seems plausible enough. I think the twinshocks were in their own class a couple of years ago. At least this way riders in each class are competing against bikes of a similar standard of modification, or not as the case may be, which should encourage riders of standard unit bikes to come back into the series, knowing they haven't got to compete against a special in the same class. What about the 2-stokes though. Should the replica James etc. go into the specials too, as riders on original spec Greeves, Sprite, Cotton etc aren't really a match for the lightweight replica specials. Any replica or special, regardless of stroke or unit/pre-unit or capacity to go into specials class? I'd say yes as the series really originated for riders of pretty much standard bikes, so they shouldn't have to compete directly against lightweight specials. The problem of course is enforcing it and assuming that the riders are going to enter the correct class. The specials class is already there of course but no-one seems to enter it. Riders know whether they own a special or not but I can see problems with bikes which have just very light changes and which class they should be in. They aren't a special but they aren't original spec either.... That aside though, as you're never going to please everyone, perhaps for next season, the class rules need re-emphasising on the regs, entry forms, at sign-on at the events and in the Championship regs on the ACU website - similar to what is being done in the Classic series for the no-stop rule. Then everyone is in no doubt as to which class they should be entering

How anyone can say any modern trials bike is heavy beats me. I'd assume that they mean it has a heavy feel to the front which is just down to the front/rear weight bias, not overall weight. The 4RT is heavier on the front than some other bikes, so was my 02 Rev 3, but heavy in overall weight - I don't think so

photo

Yes, I wouldn't disagree with you on that - forgot to mention draining the floatbowl as well as the airbox etc. Was thinking more about the more serious drowning though such as when the bike has played at submarines and taken a lungfull the size of Jordan's

Yes, just like the Mont and Gasgas with the intake right behind them. Not the best of designs eh.... Seems the manufacturers all have a competition to see who can come up with the best design for force feeding crap into the airbox these days.... Use some wire mesh/guaze like they use in car body repair fibreglass kits and cover the holes with it from the underside. You can silicon or duct tape it on or whatever. It'll keep some of the crud out but not all and not water, but better than leaving them open. I actually duct taped over the holes completely on my new 98 Mont for the SSDT that year to keep it out and it didn't affect the way it ran. Still knocked, banged and pinked its way round the road. Bit of a culture shock after minging a TYZ around flat out everywhere the year before. No crap in that airbox either

You may struggle with the cover due to the magnesium content or type of mag alloy used but I'm no expert. A mate of mine is however. He's a top notch welder (coded) and fabricator and has done some incredible repairs for me over the years, but when he tried to repair the clutch cover on my Majesty it just wouldn't weld. He's done some 175 cases but couldn't do the 250. In view of his ability I've assumed if he can't do it, it can't be done. The Mag cover may well be made of the same stuff, hence my opening comment. I'm assuming that your Majesty is an early one with the standard TY mag cover as you've mentioned the magnesium. On later Majesties shirty had an aluminium cast replacement with Majesty cast into it, the final ones had 250/320 Majesty cast into them. These shirty covers have no magnesium so should repair easily. If you'd like a newly cast later type cover as a replacement for yours, PM me and I'll give you the contact details of where you can get one as some have been recast from an original. See photo. No commercial interest for me and nothing to do with me other than mine was used as a pattern. It won't let me post the bloody photo so if you want to see one I can email it to you

It's not really going to make any difference though whether you have a carb or EFI if the bike goes under water. If the engine isn't running when it drowns and water hasn't damaged it, just do as you did and a bike will restart, carb or EFI. If the bike goes under with the engine still running and water gets sucked in, most likely it's going to damage it. One of our local lads had that unfortunate experience on his 4RT. Fell off it in about a foot of water but the tickover kept the engine running when it went under and inevitably it stopped. They got it out, drained everything off, got all the water out but the damage was already done. Bent valves, bent conrod, scored bore etc. About

Difficult to say how it compares with a standard Pinky to be honest. The mono engine should theoretically be better all round than the old TY motor due to it's more modern design. Certainly holds true when compared to a 250 TY/Majesty but when the old 'un is converted to 320 it transforms it. People say they're too powerful but it depends how it's set up. It's possible to get it to run pretty much how you want. When I bought mine it was a snappy power delivery, very sharp and a wheelspinning nightmare. I've softened it right off and I run with no tickover so I can shut it off to an absolute crawl without the clutch. With the flywheel weight fitted it's amazing how slow it will go without stalling (1st 2nd or 3rd). Timing is retarded, bigger exhaust and airbox, all help to soften the delivery. It's quite docile but very torquey and the power is there when you want it. Grips well and no problems with it on rocks. In fact, you can pick your way up a rocky stream quite nicely on the throttle without having to use the clutch - one less thing to concntrate on - throttle/clutch coordination - which is nice..... If there are any trials down your way over December period that I can get too you should have a try on it. You probably won't like the bike's set up but it will give you an idea of how soft a 320 can be

Why does it have to have EFI? Modern motox and enduro bikes have been running trouble free on carbs for a long time now and on the bikes I've owned (Yam, KTM) I've never had problems of any kind. They haven't suddenly gone off tune and run fine whatever the weather. Why shouldn't the trials bike? The EFI is very impressive on the 4RT but it will still cough stall if ridden too slowly under load in a higher gear, just like any other 4 stroke. The biggest problem with that EFI set up for me though is the fact that the tickover is set at 1800rpm and can't be lowered much below that. I generally run my trials bikes with no tickover so that when I shut off the bike does too. The high tickover required by the 4RT EFI means that I can't drop it to snail pace when needed without dipping the clutch, it has to be ridden faster than I like in certain conditions. The Scorpa 4T I tried could be shut off almost to a standstill without using the clutch and ridden old fashioned style on the throttle alone. Same for the aircooled SY fourstrokes. Can't do that on the 4RT. No amount of messing with the PTB mapping can lower the tickover. If it had a normal tickover speed I couldn't fault it.

That's a great bit of nostalgia GIZZA5, really enjoyed reading that. I just love a bit of nostalgia. Now if we could only have a Scottish twinshock 2 day event as well... Just like to echo Hilary's thoughts too, that the whole pre65/SSDT week is a fantastic organisation and a credit to those hardworking and dedicated souls involved in it. Just to feel the atmosphere building as both events get underway is like nothing any other events seem to give.

It's still very fine bead blasting but in a jet/spray of high pressure water/steam so as well as stipping the crud off it mildly polishes as well, leaving a shiny finish as opposed to the dull finish of normal blasting. If you google it you'll get a better explaination than that though...... Works well on engine cases/cylinders on stuff like 70s Jap road bikes such as Z900 to restore the casings to original type finish - shiny but not mirror polished

Not sure personally whether it will make any difference to heat dispersion whether you paint it or not. I only say this because there are many bikes at trials with unpainted barrell/head that don't suffer from overheating - ie; all the Greeves/James etc using Villiers square barrells. Cosmetically, vapour blasting leaves a nicer finish than bead/sand as it polishes as well as blasts so you get a shiny (ish) finish. I had a Bultaco barrell/head done locally a couple of years ago and it was an impressive finish. Costs a bit more than just blasting. To keep it looking that way though is always going to be difficult as the mud will bake on during the event and probably stain the alloy, as it does paint - easier to clean off from the paint than bare alloy? So if you're going to paint it you may as well just have it blasted as the cheaper option, unless there is no price difference between the two where you are. Thing with sand/bead blasting is you can normally find someone who will do it in their 'lunchtime' for a few quid. Vapour blasters are thin on the ground. I think for porting on the 250, Birkett is the only option with the spec and previous experience to do it. Shirty is the only other option but they've no interest in Yams now I would guess. Funnily enough I was chatting to Mick Thurman last week at the Classic Experts and he said his mate has a 250 done by Birkett and it is a nice bike. Still think the best option is the softly tuned 320 though.

Come on then Stu - pictures......

Thanks Steve, but what I'm after is the complete decal for the mudguard which is one length of blue vinyl with all of the sponsors logos printed onto it - just refer to it as the Hamilton decal as they were the main team sponsor

Yes, there is a classifieds section. If you let me know what you want for your Ossas, or start another topic or whatever I'll see if I can help with where to source the parts as they're not so well catered for as Bults

Forgot to mention also that if you go for a Mikuni the diameter of the intake on the back of the carb may be a different size from the Amal, therefore you may have to improvise for the intake rubber/hose from airbox to carb. As regards performance advantage with the Mikuni, personally I don't know. Some say throttle response is better/cleaner with a Mikuni, although the Beta owners seem to hate them. All I can say is that when I had my original Ossa MAR back in the 70s it ran perfectly on it's original MK1 Amal - wish I still had that bike..... When I had a reed valve fitted to my current MAR, I was still using an Amal MK1 and had no performance issues at all. Can't say I've ever found they go out of tune as there is only a pilot screw to adjust. Had a new Mikuni on it in later years and couldn't really tell any difference - other than the constant flooding when the bike was parked up or leant over. Then again, I have another MK1 Ossa which has an older Mikuni from a Suzuki fitted and that runs clean as a whistle right through the rev range - but Mick Andrews set that up. If you do go for a new Mikuni Allens is the best source for that as someone there runs a Bult with a Mikuni on so should have the jet sizes needed. Also, make sure they supply the carb with the rubber tipped float needle and housing to match as it should stop the flooding - did on mine anyway. Why they don't come as standard I don't know...