sting32

I dont recall if Florin-ridgerunner's post was there while I took the afternoon to type mine... you know changing editing and stuff when nobody is looking at breaks and stuff... I like what he said. I still say someone is gonna have to say it, "make it so" and let the cryin begin... then we can move on to the next, then the next. We get this done, have it all established before the "Anti-dirtbike & offroad" crowd kills off the public lands for MX & Quad riders, Trials will be the hot ticket and completely have the basics down pat IMHO. I dare say that 2010, could be the beginning of the boom, I say if we can keep the level we have now from falling anymore that is... acres to ride, are dwindling everywhere. at least our sport seems to be close to zero impact for neighbors, farmers, and cities... Colorado, cali and many other states are having big time problems having MX parks and the like that I do NOT feel would be so hard to have trials on the same property (that is of course before the neighbors got together to shut everything down in the 1st place). Trials really could get off the ground, or else "dirt biking" more or less will soon be extinct, I think. I hate the idea of my boy not gettin much chance to take HIS boy (or girl) riding...

Ha! Hell I got really busy at work this week, almost forgot that I finally posted this question on here, even though I edited it 20 times in "notepad"... Thanks for the insights. My question was round about way asking, what level of a rider (in youth) are we working on at this thing... and slightly questioning what is it targeted at? (because I didn't realize the part about the week long "camp" even though I may well have been told that at one time or another. ooops. so how are the ages broken up? he'll be 13 next year, but in April before the nationals not jan1. Oh wait I can read that part probably at the rules at TTC...

Somewhere, either on here (TC) or heck I cant recall, there was one passed around, it was a GASGAS 280 (not sure probably TXT). I had it, but the Hard drive it was archived on, fried itself... I do have one page I did print out at one time...

Question, To me, the name "youth Nationals" invokes the same thoughts as I have about "USA National Rounds" meaning that it is geared toward the best of the best youths congregating at Tennessee, to battle it out. So should I assume this is what they want & are promoting, or is it more of a "should be calling it" the Youth Invitational? Where yeah, I'd expect like anything else that people who think the kid is good enough to waste the family vacation time & dollars, to let Jr compete... But could just be "everyone" has go, we have fun, outing? Don't get me too wrong, I hear it is a great time, for the kids, especially the other activities, but I AM concerned with the TRIALS and those aspects. After all, Branson Missouri is in our back yard so to speak compared to TN. Where would a 12 year old, middle pack novice class, kinda timid boy ride in Tennessee? I myself have never been to a "nationals" yet, I have heard & read the stories, and stuff almost my whole life thou... I'm 40, and this year my dad finally did it, competed in a nationals at age 70, I am so proud, but saddened that My life was, well tied up, I was unable to go with him this year... I wont be able to wait until I'm 70 to go with my son, LOL.

Hmmm I developed a creaking sound too, 04 Pro, however I dont feel ANY looseness yet or gap or slap. Funny there's nothing squeeky about side to side when you do this manuver that causes squeeking either, least on my bike. Oh well, I loaded the bike for the meet, then visited thread tonight, hmmm... I have another set of these bars I can try next week, but I wonder, that bearing... FWIW, mine are the newer style fatbars (hebo) and are an early bought in 04 set with of course no crossbar. maybe since they are at least 2-2.5 years old, & Im a fairly big guy? I wonder.

I think 78% of the posters putting up "lets call em this" lists: on here are missing the whole point and Nothing but the point... The whole point of re-unifying and-or standardizing the class structure a bit, is to make it so when people travel or have a goal about riding a national level competition... Let me use me, for example: I, am profoundly thinking I am an intermediate level or 3 level rider at My club, mayebe nationwide if PRO = 0. Lets now lets say, within the next year, I travel anywhere from to Cali to Rhode Island... WIth a new class structure in place, I can faithfully know I wont be mistakenly entered into "intermediat" class out there which is actually skill level 2, nor sandbaging into the level 4 "intermediate" class at some club. (AGAIN! 1 being someone closely good enough to attempt to ride either USA pro, BUT at least should be competing as "Expert or above" at the nationals, 2 being E-S, 3 being sportsman)... So we need to do the nameing or numbering ASAP! & by GOlly, SOmeone my have to be "GOD" and say "make it so" and let the beyotching begin all down the ranks, so what? it will die down eventually, and each year the competitors will influence this at the club level, trust me... Right now, most club's I bet are having majority percent of the work done by the same top few riders who also want to place well at the nationals that they do attend! Because, Once this has taken place (just getting the names\levels the same more or less) then there will eventually have to be some tweaking of each club's perception of the #1 class, be it called the MASTER, CHAMP, whatever it is called the level set for competition lines. That will shake out over time as club #1 level riders (or even #0 Pro riders) enter the Nationals in the Correct classes now, will know that "hey our club #1 class is not tough enough... AVTA in ks is laid out like spinner said, 0=pro, 1=master, 2=expert, 3=intermediat, 4=amature, 5=novice, 6=beginner. it would not matter if I marked the sections with 1 or MadHatters, 2 or pALOMINO, 3 or Camaros, it changes nothing, yet... So as you can see, renaming of the the classes at club levels, doesnt & shouldnt make a bit of difference to the clubs at all, just keeps everything easy from that point forward. But at some point the Skill set to feel confident in a particular class level (0-6 or if you like 0-20, I dont care) needs to be universal! Which then in turn leads to me knowing that since I am an Intermediat or 3, when I go to a nationals and ride support class lines, I am NOT in Master Class lines, competing with Riders from Master skill (#1 level) & Not competing against #1 or #2 riders. I would assume at this writing I could at least complete the loops at basic support lines, I dont assume I could win, but I should be able to assume I have enough skills to attempt the sections within reasonable expectations that I have the skills (not the stamina per se) to complete each section. Now if you want to say my club's Masters, since they rode (ES=Expert-Sportsman) at the nationals, means technically they are not #1 level riders, anywhere except at AVTA Trails Club in Wichita KS? Right? Right! So technically they should be called Experts at AVTA, I should be called an Amature (4), and we dont have any Masters So be it, AT LEAST Ill know, you will know and everyone will know what level each of us are... Not trying to kill any egos (especially if fellow AVTA members are reading this)... just worked out that they were good EXAMPLES of what I am talking about...

Plus, hell... how many bikes in the "past" were painted & looked instantly like crap, that everyone "wished" we could chrome or nickel plate? Me I had many... paint only looked good that week before the trials, when you were cleaning, masking and applying stickers . And by the time the bikes were warmed up, they looked like crap (paint coming off)... looks I will keep to my word, somewhat at least, when I can get an 06 pro used and affordable, it will be my last probably for a while, lol... chrome is your friend!

What about those of us in the USA (who didnt see this thread back when) but discoverd same crap? In fact on this bike they put the shock in so that the screw, that gets damaged, is exactly 180 degrees out of picture in early posts... (facing the muffler side making it harder to notice). Would you describe what I have to have done to my shock, please?

By golly, Mich I think we want to emulate the AMA? Har de har har... http://www.off-road.com/dirtbike/columns/editorial/ripoff/

Pics... 250 I have another whole rear fender for this bike. 160 I have one more fender and tank cover for this bike. More details to come.

Hey, goto NEOTT.com (oklahoma's trials website, & home of October Test VBG)... in there you will find a lot of links to quite a few clubs in middle usa. As you follow those links to clubs closer to you, you will find more links to clubs in your area I am sure. IMHO, this is where you find bikes in the USA. Try that and the Gasgas usa importer's website, which has dealer links, and lists gasgas's forsale by private party under the "forsale" link. OK, beyond that, I have 2 bikes forsale might be in your range? I'm in KS, I dont have Any Beta's, I have 2 decent starter bikes I would love to sell, both are 95's and one is a 250 the other is the 160 (makes a good young teen bike, or wife/girlfriend bike). 1500 each, make offers? If you look at this site's "member Maps" you will see I live dang near dead central KS, or just North of Salina, but prolly just outside the 500 mile radius to be of help? I have pics of the 2 95 models in condition, but dont have them with me at work today. Email is valid with my profile, or sting32@gmail.com will get checked at least once a week.

& Figures, I didnt know... I assumed full gasgas support at least to end of Indoor or some end of year time, you know... (didnt see it here or on the one other trials bboard). WOW, so Raga not "factory rider" either? all privateer?

Had to have google translate this, and of course it aint perfect, but I looks like Jordi is leaving Gasgas? or I read/translation of this wrong? http://translate.google.com/translate?u=ht...Flanguage_tools WOw, end of an awesome era, but reading between the lines, maybe means he's going on his own trials team efforts? I suppose, I only read 1/2 then thought I would post... hehehee

So, you got to be thinking, Sting, why you defending Lane? Well to me as I read this crap, it was making me feel WOW, if you don't even respect nor want anyone else to read or consider ANY of Lane's opinion(s), then where do I stand? I have 33 years of motorcycle riding (basically on a trials bike since I was 7, riding since I was 5) under my belt, that is all my accomplishments add up to. I don't run the club, I am only a member of a club 120 miles away. My best day in 82-83, and again even now, most riders like Lane can & did kick my butt all around the riding area, in any shape or form in trials... But his opinions mean jack? Yet you insist he is the savior? Beam me up Mr. Scott I said it now, and well, I could delete my post and ignore it, but at the time I strongly felt what I wrote... And really it was a fear, that I got to say, that whatever "Voice" you think he has, with this present course of "discourse" I feel that you will have eventually made his "voice" as useful as that wacko Rev. Fred Phelps... Maybe that is your mission? (cylons) (beer) Dunlops night

To all the "mich lin" bashers & Flame Throwers, I ask you... Why the 'ell do you 'pick a nit' about whether he paid for the publishing of the book? I guess I mean, what the bloody 'ell does that have to do with the contents of the book? This is just one blaring example of gratuitous PERSONAL ATTACKS and FLAME WAR bullcrap, tossed in here due to personal vendetta, then miraculously at some point, it will be Lane that will get banned arguing over some blatant comment aimed at him... hypocrisy? d@#n straight!!! OK, lets bring any hero of yours in here, from any sport, or something, even not a sport. Where is Bernie? or ?? or ?? As you have shown with Lane, you feel that he'd have nothing to contribute to this forum, because they can't win crap right now if they tried, at Pro levels, let alone they would NOT even try IMHO. So anything they would try and post or communicate, to the rest of us who do at least might want to hear it? Well, you are just going to get on here and flame them then? Is that it? If Bernie showed his face in here, and talk about what he thinks it takes to win in sports today, From your postings here, like Bike Space or Ringo SHOULD and would say the following: "Sit down clown, you aren't a pro anymore!" "what's that? Mr Big restaurant man?, not even in America anymore..." "was it everyone else's fault? you lost in 84" Thanks, IMHO you and your distractors alike win this -> For What it Is Worth, I somehow believe if Bob Hannah showed up at the Los Angeles round 1 2 or 3 of this years (or heck, any recent years) "PRO" super-cross, they would NOT DARE tell him "Uh well Uh... Bob? Uh... Uhm, what makes you think you should ride pro?" Nor would you hear uttered "Honestly dude, you have to ride tomorrow with the kids and amatures." PLUS, we all know, that if he quit after turn one, he'd still get the points given to last place!!! This doesn't change, I don't care if he knocks Ricky Carmichael himself off his goshdang bike on the tripple, they ain't gonna tell him he is not a pro, nor take away his points and stuff!!!! BTW, for those who haven't seen it, Jeremy McGrath has knocked bubba off his 450 at least twice now, & Jeremy was somewhere like in 13th place in the overall ranks! at the end of his pro ride this year (which is not even 1/4th of the season) This whole "Get a load of this guy" flame contests are for 5th graders through Senior high, and it is SOOOOO apparent here that it is silly. FWIW, Nobody is saying what Lane has to say is or is not worth the paper that it is printable to, but geesus friggin Chrysler would you just stop the bullcrap.

I laughed outloud reading that line from you, like them guys are going to ride that? you nuts?

I am assuming you are a novice rider but might have some Mechanical know how, what I did with my TXT gasgas bike(s) when I was novice was, 1> slow turn throttle, you need a spare throttle anyhow, get one and put the "black tube" on the bike. 2> adjusting the timing. if your timing has been modified in the past (previous owners) they will have advanced the timing trying to get snappy power. you can undo this, and even go the other way to smooth/soften the bike up a bit. By default there should be a mark (depending on which guy built it at the factory) on the stator bracket behind the flywheel where it was "stock" on my 321 I was about 1 milimeter retarded from that mark, and loved it. 3> a litle More can be gained with putting an extra gasket below the cylinder, which you may not want to do after just having it rebuilt if you didnt do it yourself.

Knowledge buries itself into my cranium, that I wanna dig out and share on this topic.... but as I recall from either a brochure or a program, or magazine article in the past, or a very knowledgeable Marine mechanic told me: Reeds do 2 things. One is they are a one way air valve so that exhaust pressures don't rush back through the carb(s). 2 when an engine is running you can imagine that if we had a little window to see the reeds, you would see that they would appear to "vibrate" open & close and this vibrating action can affect mixture timing to cylinder and I guess change how the particles mix in the gas/air charge (from the carburetor. as you can imagine fiber based reeds (ala boysen or whomever brand) will claim that the reeds react quicker and easier & more efficiently than stock ones, and I can support the claim somewhat on 3 engines. One a 4 cylinder outboard motor I put them into, and a pair of 321 gasgas txt's I had them in. loved it, I say it smoothed out the engine and yet made it snappy. but as you would guess, I have to say to some, it is possibly hard to tell on the bikes. Part of the reason is, unless you are a "testing facility" I doubt that you "only" try reeds and not do any other things when you are doing major-but minor engine work... I know when mine was done there was a tiny bit of grinding (like smoothing the casting) done to the area inside the reed cage and inlet area, plus we did other things too like head base gaskets and some machining on the carb's inlet, and muffler cleaning you know... and who knows, which does more? But In the 4cylinder Chrysler FORCE 120 outboard, that was the only thing we did to it before test running it, trying to get more performance from the engine, if you know what I mean. the bottom end was a (Noticeably) for hole shots (pulling skiers & or just the boat itself onto plane) but again we had to adjust the carbs, and you know, who knows what was the best part of the job, adjustment or both or reeds? To me it is like changing the intake manifold on a Small Block Chevy, to an edelbrock one. all by itself might not seem all that noticeable but the other things you typically do when you do it, makes a difference.

Quickly, 3 things I can think of that smothens out the power delivery of any bike... 1 time. as the bike gets ridden, piston rings wear, less compression smoother she gets, plus mufflers fill with gook and stuff. 2 spark tuning/timing, on the txt you can adjust the timing yourself I did that on my 321 retarded the timing. 3 mods, boysen type fiber reeds and changing deck height (gaskets under the Jugg, etc. and year model changes.... BTW in number 3, they probably tweaked the porting in cylinders and that kind of stuff. I know the 99 321 steel mid muffler 00 had alum, who knows what else different they had between production runs, I would bet. you ever take off the reed cage (of course when you have the cylinder off the bike) I was told there is a lot of flashing you can remove in there to semi-port the intake cavity. since I didnt do that job myself I would prefer to refer you to a competant trials/gasgas mechanic before just grinding away!

Sam, I am NOT a Master class rider, I ride Sr Expert/Intermediate. But I think you will find Benifit from practicing balancing and hopping in any fashion you wish, but it seems to me, that balance is 99.9997% of being successful at anything to do with trials. And I find balancing a dead engine bike far more challenging than a running one, especially when you try and just balance without running the bike. I guess Im saying 'why not?' about practicing hopping with engine off. Oh and about your feet position, If you would buy a DVD or 2 from TrialsTV.com I think you might notice that the feet position pretty much is like you expressed, as in no hard and fast rule, but you do "move around" on the pegs as you ride. I find that most of the time, my foot position depends Not just majority, but sometimes solely on being able to apply the rear brake the way I want to or need to. The above being said you do know that people are experimenting with footpeg placement, I see Lewissport in usa is selling different off-set variants of footpegs.

No offense taken Michlin, I think I got the analogy from reading the boards here and ya know.... & I hope (there is only so much typing I can stand) YOU know, I agree and disagree about equally, on some other things but had to sum it up... I am more against paying pro's at all, especially since it cant be done "right" right now with a sick dying sport base... So hope didnt offend, as I tasked about one of your many points you champion on about. I hope you know I do (and did) agree with the 125 thing, in the other threads Im prolly the 2% that posted agreeing... EVEN THOUGH being a red blooded "AMERICAN," I hate the 125cc idea "in general." but i see it like VHS VS betamax, it is in the wind!!! Small chance in hell the euro's can undo that bull___p law so we're stuck with it, as far as I can tell, right???? BTW, I was promptly tossed over to the dogs on that agreement about the 125 thing, at home, think it is a freedom in the USA issue :madsanta: . On the points you (I quoted in bottom of the above quote), about the kid riding 290 Maybe you finally posted it the way I try to defend myself on this 125 topic, but fail. if all the kids have 125's in THAT class, then what is the big deal, where does the "BUTTER KNIFE to a GUNFIGHT" fit then? We send the butternives to the BUTTER KNIFE fight, instead of to the MACHINE GUN FIGHT, right? Seems settled to me... Do you guys see what he is saying? It is NOt that difficult. it is the CHICKEN or the Egg thing. Make the 125 National or pro classes types of class for the kids, and they will COME, right now they will p*** and moan maybe but later it will be just OK. It is just like anything else, when you Highschool loses the winningest coach for the last 12 years, the next years seniors get screwed, Hell our generation (30-40 year olds) been having that lesson all our lives, BTW because everyone did what they did when they was our age, then legislated it out of existance... and I emphathize with that, the "transition group" is going to be motivated or lost, I guess. Shoot the dog now or let the next victum shoot the dog, hmmmm.

Does it really matter if someone wants/has to catch Lane? If he enters he's responsible to ONLY abide by the rules set forth. Along that same argument is, since we're (USA as a nation) not competitive in World Rounds, we shouldn't ever send anyone to even compete? How would we ever know? Anyway, this whole "Pro vs Amature, change the natc & all that" argument is getting off track, there are good ideas on both sides, most of them don't deal with the issue that is totally facing trials in the USA. That being, !!!IT IS DYING!!! There are 2 camps with vague (non the less determined) ideas on how to get it at least off deathbed, one of them thinks "pro" riders are the answer. But sorry Lane, to me that is what the healthy patient naturally will do, but this patient is sick, dead sick. Right now you also think we need corrective surgery on the national levels, I think maybe... But you aren't going to get to do surgery until patient gets at least a little better. ----- So this is the problem--- needs to be fixed before surgery---- We do NOT see support for the trials "the sport" in general like we started to see, in the 70's. But I think that could and will change before long. Problem is that the BIG 4 don't see it yet, and in this country the big 4 seem to rule. But, I find it beyond stoopid, that Honda-Kaw-Yam-KTM? spends thousands of thousands to promote the sport of off-road & Motocross, when in some states you cannot legally ride off road anymore (even private land is subject to being involved in a lawsuit & closure)? :madsanta: PLUS!!! at this very same time they do NOT *seem* to help or care when the few tracks and general riding area's are being closed. and I'm talking about the big pocket guys, not the local shops, as they know that no riding area means it gets damn hard to sell bikes. We all know the benefits of our sport, but word of mouth is all that has kept trials in the states, alive even this long (since everyone gave up in the 70's). Much like the old guys walking the malls with Oxygen carts, trials is in bad shape over here. Hell we all know & promote it to friends as, we can practice in Urban areas in our driveways, and enjoy the hell out of it without hardly disturbing anyone... That has been the oxygen bottle, word of mouth. But nothing we do does what it did when all 3 big toy makers had one on the showroom floors... We need dealers! We need presence. How come Honda (biggest dang corp) doesn't come out with models on showrooms, and then regional promotion and especially the upper level marketing types, to get involved, to do this... to help sell their damn merchandise? Why can they not see it. Racing was co opted & cultivated & developed to sell merchandise... But motocross and Quads are in serious danger... It is chicken or egg time. Trials can be developed to sell Merchandise. An optimistic look, for just one second... in general bike sales, Do you also feel or agree that maybe we're about where things were in the 60's? When japan invaded the bike market, everyone buying a bike, trying it, then finding their niche? Trials is a niche that seems to be hidden from anyone's view. Plus we're facing "where you gonna ride that damn thing" syndrome in the USA. Or to maybe go outside the paradigm? Maybe it will be Chinese bikes, cheap and cleverly marketed to be self sustaining, ECO friendly sports, resembling trials? 1 as our sport is really close to ZERO impact on the environment, no more impact than extreme downhill bicyclists, and other hiking and stuff. 2 You wont p*** off the adjacent landowners, because trials is not ridden in open areas with the bikes producing 98+ decibel sounds at 98% of the active time. Our total problem has NOT changed in just under 30 years, the sport has been an ignored item, and until the same political ritual that made "soccer" a vibrant sport in America, trials will continue to be as popular as horse shoe throwing... Lastly, another tactic could be this... I say we vote Mich lin into public office, Then we find the same lobbyists that proclaimed how "safe" soccer was compared the the nearly "deadly" sport of American style football, and get them working on our case. (by the way soccer and it's safety & Injury likely hood, is a lie, GOOGLE can help you come to terms with that, but IMHO a true and honest case on at least 2 fronts can be made for trials). Rant off. Hope you see my point. Sting

Lane, Pardon me... I was pulling you off the soapbox with that one (off track), but only because I fell in love with the idea of "how to bust the cheater" if this 125 thing ever got adopted.

HEY! Gasgas is producing the 4 stroke trials for 06... :madsanta: No Im not kidding, but I am not the END ALL or know it all, just look here... http://www.gasgas.com/Pages/PDFs/2006-models.pdf Look at Page 4. GAS GAS TXT BOY 50 4S :hat: