atomant

Well what ever way they done it, Ross got the place. It's great for the lad don't you think?

Yeah, I don't know where the year has gone. All I know is he's catching me up

Looks like its going to be Browny, Wiggy and Ross I Think its been done on positions from this year WTC. Browny, Wiggy 1 & 2 respectfully and Ross 2nd in Youth See you all there

You seem to get on with this fella called God! Is he your manager

One thing I think we can probably agree on and that is you change your style of management for the management situation you find yourself in.

What I do find is if you allow a mediocre worker to be put alongside someone who is highly motivated and they appear to be getting the same package, the mediocre employee will not get better but the better one's performance will drop. That's why I think is so important to employ the right people and I can of course influence that. In your case ( and one I have had before), you are given someone 'to do something with' and its not so easy. I appreciate that. Your view of the promotion to incompetence is different to mine hence the difference of opinion. That's simply incorrect skill selection but I know what you mean. I do something which I have termed ' stretch the strengths' which means if I have a good engineer, then how good can that person become? I try to then stretch his/her mind to encompass new technologies or processes but always based on his/her core skill. I do this myself to learn new technologies too. But no, I have not taken any offence. This interests me as well although I am not for one minute suggesting I have all the answers to effective management. In fact, I may be doing it all wrong. p.s. I fixed the tags for you .. Do I get a wage rise sir

I don't really think you have said anything different than I have to be honest. One thing that I take issue with is because someone works for a company a long time, that alone shouldn't be regarded as 'making a significant commitment'. In my years of career development, that was regarded as someone who lacked ambition and was frowned upon. Also I may add, that its not the years with a company that's important, its the contribution that person has made which is. IMHO To make a good company, you need employees that are willing to put the effort in to make it good. Employing the right ones in the first place is the key (and very difficult) 'Promotion to incompetence' is a term I have heard many times and supports what I have said. If they are incompetent to manage, but have still been promoted, then they must have achieved what I said in my first post which is they are very good at interacting with the people who matter for their career development. Management skills don't always come into it. As a manager, I have good days and bad days like everyone else but I make a point of going out of my way to put something right that I have gotten wrong. I am a tough person to work for but those that do, tell me they wouldn't want it any other way

Seriously for a minute, you have been slagging your manager but you may need to consider that you are a manager as well. You manage the way you do your work and the way you interact with people. Both of these skills are important but where I find people who have oodles of the first, they lack the second. Everyone at sometime must have seen a poor manager (like yourself) and asked themselves how the hell did they get that job. Well, its normally because they are very good at interacting with the people who matter for their career development. They could be mediocre at best but they will survive by ensuring they are seen in the correct light by their managers. It's not a*** licking as such, just company politics and survival. That's the way it is I'm afraid. You cant beat it, but you can still win! I would say without a doubt you could negotiate a salary increase if you went about it a different way. In most situations, I tend to look at what result I want to achieve and work back from that. If something don't work, then try a different method and so on but at all times, be positive and you will find that the wage rise you are after maybe there after all.

Thanks for sharing that with us Gizza5. I certainly found it very interesting reading it.. now if you are going to write some memoirs, let us know p.s. Not too sure what Big John will make of your comment about the 200 Fantic being so much better than the Bultaco though Fantic MoToR

They are that desperate to take the money of us eh?

I grew up in the 70's worshipping the man. He jumped over a load of double decker buses and came off bad. He was always coming off.. And his grand canyon jump! mad stuff. RIP

You didn't start this thread with the right attitude. You didn't post anything with the right attitude, and even thought everyone who has contributed hasn't supported you, you think we are all wrong and that's the wrong attitude. So, to be quite honest, I don't think we give a f*** what training you were going to get to be honest!...... and yes you are correct, that's the wrong attitude too

Just a technicality, but wouldn't he be bi-sexual

Fair comment! I was wondering if anyone was going to come out and support him but it didn't happen! I wonder why

Got a few peeps wound up this thread didn't it

If you think your employer sucks, go get another job. Or better still, become an employer yourself and see how easy it is.... NOT!

The ones I hate are the cameras they put up on road works on the motorway to protect the workers (fair enough), but you get knicked for speeding (doing 60 when it says 40) but it's 11pm at night and there's no one working. The same goes for areas that are only sensitive to speed at certain times - like schools for instance. 20mph on a 40mph road 24 hours a day sucks when its only relevant for 6 hours a day!

Your attitude is just getting worse each post you make! If you have that level of contempt for your manager, its hardly likely he is going to see you as someone he wishes to pay more money to don't you think? You say you have been working for this company for 18 years? Maybe he's thinking if he pees you off enough, you will do him a favour and leave.

F*** off if you're English

I couldn't agree more

I would suggest that you don't turn down the training , or any training come to that. A trained individual is more valuable to a company than an untrained one. I also never went to my boss for a wage rise. I always worked on the basis that if I worked hard and showed some initiative, then I would get rewarded, and that's what happened for me. These days, I think an employer could take this view. Someone working hard and showing initiative will get on. Those that tell them to take their training and shove it up their ass wont.

you got the hots for her as well have you ? sorry, didn't realise she was taken

I was only reading another recent post on here about some guy who said he had to work longer hours to have the same amount in his pocket than he did a few years ago. ( I think that was the theme of it) You are in the building game right? Lets see how long it is before you find you are un-competitive because Polish or Czech workers are seriously undercutting you. ( if they are not already that is)