trialsrfun

You can also click on the print in the row of boxes as well as each type of bike for more info on that model.

Hi Christian the first type of engine similar to the one you have in the Greeves was 9E 197cc with a 5 1/4" conrod, when this engine was enlarged to 246cc the barrel base flange was increased in thickness by 1/4" to add strength because of the greater power output, this required the rod to be lengthened by 1/4" to 5 1/2" these were the A series engines 32a 34a 37a. My knowledge of the alloy barrels is mostly Greeves, DOT, Ajax for the 197 to 225 conversion and late DMW. Parkinson, Marcelle and others also made cylinders but these I am unfamiliar with, possibly someone with engineering connections could have produced one or more as well. The last type of DMW cylinder was designed for use with the shorter 5 1/4" conrod, all Greeves and DOT barrels that I have come across use the longer rod as does the MotoX conversion that Garyhib has. Irrespective of rod length the stroke remains the same at 72mm. The porting in your cylinder appears to be very similar to the other Villiers fit barrels but without accurate measurements from known cylinders it is not possible to say. Often the greatest visible difference is the size/shape of the inlet port but maybe the biggest perfomance vaiation would be due to the type of head and compression ratio used. Hope this helps.

Hi Christian, Your Greeves is very nice but I cannot identify the cylinder other than to say it is not a MotoX conversion, how does the engine performance compare to other Villiers bikes you may have ridden.

Hi Christian, The MotoX cylinder & head are rectangular when viewed from above, wider left/right thanfront/rear. The fins at the upper part of the cylinder are wider than the lower ones exactly as on the picture above of Maurice riding his bike.

I thought this might be of interest, http://www.examiner.co.uk/news/west-yorkshire-news/outlane-engineer-paul-jacksons-million-to-one-4988697

Hi Garyhib, I had a DOT Demon MX or scrambles bike which had a John Burns/MotoX Motors 360cc conversion fitted. The stroke is 72mm so same as the std Villiers,the bore is increased to obtain the extra capacity. This requires the crankcase mouth to be enlarged so really for those cases it is a one way conversion, if you have cases that fit the cylinder then these will have been enlarged to suit. My bike went rather well with great pulling power, noticeably more than a 250 though not quite up to CZ or Husqvarna speed. Engine was Villiers gearbox, Alpha crankcases and crank with Stefa electrics. The downside of the conversion is weight, there is a lot of alloy in the barrel making it much heavier than say a Greeves square barrel, also because the design is Villiers based the transfer ports remain the same size so this possibly limits the engines potential. If you have the parts though why not build it and enjoy something a little different Maurice goes well enough on his bike which uses a James or FB type frame.

This sort of nonsense is or will be damaging to the sport we enjoy. Now Amal/Burlen are making the premier concentric in 20mm which might be ok??? for the 199cc Triumph Cub clubs are saying no DelOrto or Mikuni carbs to be fitted so are the same clubs now saying the premier canot be used at all.

Which clubs then?

When electric welding you must first disconnect the coil wires, plug top as well as battery terminals this applies to any vehicle bike, car, tractor or truck both petrol and diesel. Footrests with a bigger platform area are definitely the way forward, you only have four points of contact between you and bike so good footrests and bar grips are essential.

Definitely a semi syn oil @ 35 or 40/1 ratio, no richer or leaner. Tolerances on air cooled engines have to be greater than water cooled.

Sounds like carb settings maybe running too rich or a choked exhaust. Call Beta uk for jetting info.

No idea about any of that Charlie I just think the Elstar, Firefly and Kyffin look more purposeful than many of the others from that time.

With more modern higher bars, a low mounted mudguard and neater fuel tank the Kyffin would look as good as anything out there today. Silencer is àVilliers road bike, seat from a Greeves Anglian. I would be very interested if offered one for sale.

Just thought, might the Kyffin trials bike be the rarest of them all?

I believe MP or REH made forks with leading spindle.

Hi Charlie, I have but even though I have ridden in many trials, classic trials and visited a good many shows I have never seen a Kyffin trials bike.

When reading about the BSA Sunbeam (good luck in the P65 Stu) and following the story on these engines elsewhere I noticed a link to Villiers engined trials bikes. Two are of particular interest to me. Firstly the Firefly I have seen one of these ridden in local trials and thought it to be a good bike, the other is the Kyffin Saphire trials which I have heard of but never seen though I have seen a number of th Triumph engined scrambles bikes as wll as a BSA A65 powered version. The frame on the Red Rose trials appears to be a virtual copy? of the Bultaco of the same period but were any sold, has anyone seen one/got one or remember them being ridden.

When the scooter was in producion did it have a gearbox, was the engine ever used in a bike?

Thanks to all of you for your useful info, the bike is now running very well with the white needle fitted I would however prefer to use the viton type as it is supposed to partner the new float. Thinking about it one possibility could be if the angle is different on the viton needle tip the effective needle length would be shorter? so causing the over fueling. There must be something as we have all had similar problems.

Check air filter before stripping the carb and blowing everthing through with an air line (do NOT poke anything through the jets) then check very carefully the O ring around the main jet holder which fits into the float bowl.

Carb was new genuine not copy, spec is unaltered. Measures 15mm from gasket face to needle seat. Again read the Burlen technical pages before calling their technical help number, though helpful they could offer no real insight as to why the problem was happening but stated that the stay up float wa definitely the way to go saying recheck everything. Did just that without really finding any differences so reassembled using stay up float with white needle and the problem has gone away, bike runs perfectly.

Will do the measurements asap, thank you.

Your very best otion is to contact Villiers Services Birmingham UK, they have a good website.

With the adjustable needle tangs the stay up should be an easy fit but it currently looks as though the old one wil have to be reused.

Thank you both for your replies. So far not so good then judging by your experiences. Looks like the trials rider pays up and does the developement work yet again, we continue to pay the asking price for things that simply do not perform. Any one done any better with these floats?