grahamjayzee

Hello Pludmugger, and welcome. I returned to the fold 4 years ago after a long family break. I had a similar budget to you. Previously I rode Beta, but also various twinshocks. I still hold a nostalgic torch for the twinshocks, particularly the Fantics as my first bike was a 1978 125 and my first mono a 241. However, they fetch good money, and need work. Too many people know the worth of these bikes, so even rough ones fetch decent cash. If you know someone who is realistic and selling a decent one, they are still worthy rides for Suffolk trials, but the last thing you want to do is spend £1000+ on a bike only to chase the niggles with another £big one. Your cheapest route in is likely to be on more modern gear that is deemed uncompetetive by the good lads (but more than good enough for the likes of me). I purchased a 2001 Beta Rev3 for £725 and spent £250 making it good to go (new tyres, chain and sprocket, fork seals, wheel bearings etc). I then rode it for 3 years before selling it for £600. That's cheap motorsport in anyone's book. You can pick up decent early 2ks bikes for £1200, and many will be known to the competition scene and therefore usually looked after. The sort of riders that compete on 5+ year old bikes tend to know what needs to be done to keep them on the boil. If you go pre-2000, there's plenty there for pennies (Beta Technos for example rarely fetch much and are perfectly servicable). These bikes are extremely capable and easy to ride; sometimes the twinshocks are not so manageable as most are heavier and have weaker brakes. That said, you'll still enjoy yourself. I hope that helps. If you need any more help, drop me a line and I'll chat to you at any of our trials. Graham

Yep, that's what you need to prevent that back wheel stupidly rotating at the same speed as the front! So, by the reckoning of more grunt = better; who here has a trials bike with an aprillia RSV1000 lump in? Yes yes, I know it's heavier, but it's got at least 4 times the torque of any normal trials bike, so it's got to be better, right? I'm being playful, but the point is USEABLE power. All the torque in the world is only useful if you can apply it to the surface under the wheels. If the surface can manage x, then 2x is half of it wasted...

More BHP or torque is unlikely to equate to 'best'. Too many other factors influence the operation of a trials bike. Unless you are planning to use it to plough a field...

Oh. Sorry...

Welcome! The key is breaking the bead. I have used several 'DIY' methods over the years. Support the wheel on 2 decent size blocks of wood so the rim is supported and the disc or sprocket is clear of the ground. Using careful balance (as all trials riders have!), position a garden spade on the tyre adjacent to the rim, and stand on it! Collect yourself from the old paint tins and find the wheel that went over the fence and repeat until succesful! I've stopped doing that now and use a simple press made by screwing a piece of 2x2 to the garage wall at the height of the wheel plus the above blocks. I put the wheel against the wall under this block, and then use a 4ft piece of 3x3 with a short section of 3x3 screwed to it as a lever. Place this on the tyre against the rim, stand on the rim with on foot and the lever with the other and it usually pops off straight away. Once it's off on one side, the tyre will drop into the well, and you can go at it with your levers as normal. Regarding spoke leaks, there is a lot written about that subject on here. However, all modern trials bikes have spokes and use tubeless tyres. It's once a bit of wear and corrosion sets in that they leak around the spoke holes. There are ways to repair this, but a heavy duty tube inside a tubeless tyre also works. Good luck Graham

The last time I asked a question like this "What Is The Best Way To Clean Cow Fecal Matter Off Of Helmet?" I was visitted by some very officious people from the animal welfare league, and a very angry farmer...

Yep, to start a development, you first need a set of requirements. Not too sure exactly what those would have been!

Interesting, but it does look rather like a capability excercise. I like to see people try new things, but I can see many more reasons to not persue this particular direction than I can to do so. Looking at the (very tidy) early gasser's back tyre, it doesn't look like these bikes are regularly competed! Certainly, eastern mud would stop the gasser for grip, and the Mont for swingarm clearance, never mind once the belt dragged it onto the pulleys! Like the master cylinders though...

I can atest to the beauty of the Wassel; it fair brought a tear to my eye!

Isn't a queue at a section another way of describing a load of mates who can have a chat? I think we sometimes see these things the wrong way. I am often under time pressure to get home before I'm noticed missing, but it's wrong of me to assume that my time is any more precious than anyone else's. Queue jumping is just not cricket...

My thoughts exactly. We have to leave the observers alone or we won't have any! I think the 'trials community' needs to ensure we have a culture of respect similar to that seen towards Rugby referees. The observer's opinion, no matter what, is not to be questioned. Groans, swearing whilst riding off etc are all totally unacceptable in my mind. If we had a way of ensuring all riders took their turn with the clipboard from time to time, I'm sure they'd all realise this and trials Chi would be reset. Graham

Totally agree OTF. I had some issues with the trials offered by my local club having just moved to the area. Rather than moan, I went to the AGM and joined the committee. I run a company, have a new house and a family, time is an issue. However, if I'm not prepared to give up a few hours a month, I might find I have every Sunday morning available in the future! Well done to Johnnyboxer for putting your hand up, not out. Graham

Now we're getting somewhere. How about you fail a section and get a 5, BUT you can claw back some points depending on how spectacular the fail was. So a simple stop remains a five, but the full on handlebar handstand/ faceplant gets 3 of them back? Damaged clothing and unintentional personal exposure that has to be endured for the remainder of the trial and you get your clean. That answers the 'boring to watch' question, and riders then have the choice: Go for the clean, take a tactical dab, or go for the full on 'You've been framed' 5/0. I should run the ACU, me...

First of all, I wasn't there, so take my comments in that light. Secondly, seeing the vids, I would not have wanted to make a call on whether clean or five. However, I think we need to take care with this thread; it doesn't matter how many times we prefeace comments with "Look, I'm not criticizing the observer", that is exaclty how the poor chap that officiated on this section must see it. As with many other (sometimes highly professional) sports (think cricket), there is a degree of subjectivity. At the end of the day, an amateur who has volunteered has stood on the side of a hill in his own time to officiate over an AMATEUR sport. If he got it wrong,had a bias, fell asleep, was bribed etc, tough titty, Live with it. If we even infer that the guy did a bad job, and insist on training courses and what have you, very soon you will have no observers and then the whole stop/ no-stop argument will be all but redundant. These are the rules we have right now. To be honest, the observers are the most important commodity here. We all need to do all we can to ensure they have as easy a ride as possible. In the meantime, shall we try to keep these good folks out of the firing line? Graham

Happy Birthday!

I'm out next at the Brian Stonebridge (Cambridge Matchless) on 26th. I don't have much else planned. Guess I should take a look at the Gazette and start grovelling to the missus!

I bet you lost fewer marks getting down stairs than we did at Raydon! Take it easy Carl Graham

Alright Carl, You got it down the stairs yet? Graham

Good post, OTF. I think you've distilled this down to the essence; it's generally the trial that's the problem, not the bike! If the majority want to wobble through on old bikes, the trial should reflect that. If the top 5 hotshots go clean, they can always enter as experts (or whatever) on the same bike and test themselves against the skilled (in my area) minority. After all, in many of the trials I ride, the top experts seem to do that anyway. And why shouldn't they? Catering for the best is always going to lead to problems. After all, if Dougie turned up to one of our trials, he'd win it on a wheelie bin (no disrespect to local experts, of course!). There is nothing to stop the very best riders turning up on totally unsuitable bikes if they want the challenge, is there? Vespa class anyone? Graham

Think you might be right. I love spot the difference puzzles I get on me cornflake packets; First clue, look at the front light and front mudguard brace! Do I win anything?

I think it only works in a competetive class, as otherwise there's not much to be gained from making the purchase. And as I see it, that's where the main problems exist as people spend huge amounts of money for competetive advantage. I wonder how many of these transactions are actually made in the Scandinavian class, or whether it's just the presence of the rule that limits the spend? What's clear is that there is no easy fix, is there? One other thing I do notice from these discussions is that most of those who point at the heavily modified bikes are arguing for the SPIRIT of pre-65, and I think this is a very good point. Spirit of trials in general is emotive (I often see discussion when walking sections about taking wide loops because the markers don't specifically prohibit it; our observers don't usually quote the rule book about straight lines between markers, but simply point out that 'it's not trials, is it?'!), and it seems that many that enjoy the old bikes do so because of what they evoke. Perhaps we need a gentleman's vote to decide such things! Graham

Try this ide for size; Anyone see the old Top Gear where James May competed in some club grass track race somewhere in Scandanavia? The car rules were really simple; do what you like, but if someone offers you

Absolutely no idea, but in rough maths terms, my 290 evo holds about 3 litres or thereabouts, which is a bit over half a gallon. A 250 aprilia 2-stroke road bike does about 35 mpg. Assume similar for a trialie (it's got a gentler tune, but lower gearing and higher likely losses). On the back of that, if you've ridden 15 miles, I'd be looking for a petrol station!

One good tip I got from Malcom Everly (one of the smoothest riders I know) is to practice riding along in a straight line with the front wheel locked. That sorts out your balance in dynamic situations a treat! Graham

Jon, I think we align! I can, however see OTF's point of view. This class is riding the EXPERT route and therefore the bike limits the severity of the sections and ensures that expert riders continue to be challenged without being killed off! The may KEEP riders in the fold, but I suspect it won't bring many new ones in, as Charlie had hoped. I can see value in ensuring an old Montesa etc is welcomed, but if that is owned by a newbie (usually because they are 'of a certain age' and the bike had some resonance with their youth, in my experience) then it is unlikely that the bike will be the limitting factor, as long as there is a route suitable for it and the rider. This comes back to the trial and how it is laid out again. So, as I said, I'm with Jon! Graham