February 20, 201412 yr Dabster and Atomant, the definition I gave of innovation is neither flawed nor wrong. Of course words can have different meanings or definitions when used in different circumstances but here we are talking about bringing a new product to market (not racial equality etc) and in these circumstances a product must be a commercial success to be regarded as innovative. In fact some learned business scholars would go further and define innovation as "the first successful commercial application of an idea or invention". It reasonable follows from this that as a design ages and becomes obsolete it is no longer innovative. Ponder the following - a man goes to the doctor and says "I have a problem with my feet" The doctor replies "I am a physician, why are you wasting my time with questions about a unit of measurement" The problem was that you described the term 'Innovation' in specific terms inasmuch as a product had to be a commercial success to be regarded as innovative. Whilst this is one way of using the term, it is not the definitive definition. just saying .... Ponder this .. A man goes to the doctor and says " I have a problem with my foot" The doctor replies " Stop bragging, we know you're a 12" dick" Edited February 20, 201412 yr by atomant
February 21, 201412 yr Dabster and Atomant, the definition I gave of innovation is neither flawed nor wrong. Of course words can have different meanings or definitions when used in different circumstances but here we are talking about bringing a new product to market (not racial equality etc) and in these circumstances a product must be a commercial success to be regarded as innovative. In fact some learned business scholars would go further and define innovation as "the first successful commercial application of an idea or invention". It reasonable follows from this that as a design ages and becomes obsolete it is no longer innovative. wrong again. disagree again. Here we are talking about innovation qualified laterly by you to mean trials bikes. So, Fi on the ossa is just that (innovative) surely as it has never been on a trials bike before (afaik) so is the ossa a commercial success and if not is Fi on that bike immediately not innovative?
February 21, 201412 yr put that in your pipe and smoke it! :moon: :moon: :moon: :hyper: :hyper: :chairfall: :chairfall:
February 22, 201412 yr It is probably fair to say that the FI on the ossa is innovative as afaik it is the first use of crank case injection on a 2t trials that has been sold in reasonable numbers and without knowledge to the contrary commercially viable. You can never be certain it is truly innovative however, the Wal Phillips FI system was tried on all sorts of engines many years ago. Very good Atomant, know anymore? Bent over trials rider with bad back goes into doctors and says "doctor, I've got lumbago" doctor replies snappily "If you don't mind I'll do the diagnosis round here"
February 23, 201412 yr Hopefully the person in charge of vertigo stop reading this thread a while back
February 23, 201412 yr Hopefully the person in charge of vertigo stop reading this thread a while back I too thought the same, hell some posting on here have already assigned it to an early grave without seeing a picture? I tell you what it will have, 2 wheels, hardly any seat, two brakes front & Back, off road tyres, and all the common traits of a modern trials bike the rest is speculative if it is innovative then we will have to wait and see?
February 24, 201412 yr And to know that there are people who said that the No-Stop rule and increased bike weight would amount to nothing! It makes it even possible for a new brand to join the rest. Edited February 24, 201412 yr by guys
February 24, 201412 yr And to know that there are people who said that the No-Stop rule and increased bike weight would amount to nothing! It makes it even possible for a new brand to join the rest.
February 25, 201412 yr Ive been told by a very knowledgeable source that Vertigo have offered a very significant deal ( he might not think so , but i do ) to Toni Bou and that Montesa are aware . ... and then hell froze over!
February 25, 201412 yr ... and then hell froze over! Well, If you consider that the owner of Vertigo is sponsoring Toni Bou this year...
October 1, 201411 yr Apparently there is two vertigos in exsistence and it will be at the (milan?) show in November?
October 2, 201411 yr Interesting - I know one of the features of downhill cycles is the variety of suspension arrangements there are. Could this be the radical thing you suggest I wonder? Also, I am excited to see what the engine design looks like and what 'radical' features they have incorporated. The overall Geometry of a trials bike is so well proven, I wouldn't expect to see anything that moves too far away from the standards that are in place. Maybe a re-distribution of weight could be a factor.. Can't wait to see it to be honest
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