I wish Yamaha would start making the Pinky Ty250 again.

Stick a rear disc on it - job done.

Ride a section on your TY & then flog it round a moor for 1/2 an hour, then ride section again. Repeat process on any modern water cooled bike of your choice. If you still want to ride a TY, you're nuts.

Ride a section on your TY.........Is this even possible for a inexperienced rider in a modern day section ?......... Repeat process on any modern water cooled bike of your choice. If you still want to ride a TY, you're nuts .

This is a discussion about (we say in dutch lol, louis van gaal english its a thing) apples and pears.

Inexperienced rider vs experienced

2 total different bikes

All have their pro's and con's, in my oppinion its all about the fun YOU have with it.

A german bloke in bilstain belgium definitly outperformed me on his yamaha dt, with a big smile and great fun!

But shall we keep this topic about the vertigo bike?

I am sure they have done their calculations and test development rides but the headstock area looks like it could do with some extra webbing plates for support to the frame tubes. Any idea of prices and when the production bikes are due?

. As far as £££££ goes, Dougie himself said he doesn't know where this £8k that's being thrown about has come from. Pricing isn't yet decided.

£7999 ?

This is pure speculation,however if the Vertigo is better than the rest a premium price may not be a barrier to sales.

Certainly wasn't in the 80s when the TYMono arrived,queued up for them and paid full retail though it was significanty more expensive.

This is pure speculation,however if the Vertigo is better than the rest a premium price may not be a barrier to sales.

Certainly wasn't in the 80s when the TYMono arrived,queued up for them and paid full retail though it was significanty more expensive.

Early SWM's were about 30% more than the competition.

All modern bikes are capable far beyond what the majority need which wasn't the case when the mono Yam came out Most people that bought one found that their results significantly improved (till your competitors had one) Don't think that many riders can cock up a section and blame the bike these days even at wtc level .Some will buy the Vertigo whatever it costs but it's power output will intimidate most I can see that using the least aggressive maps will calm it down but you might as well bought something less powerful

Well said Huski the ty analogy is very much the truth.

Heavy VS light. All things in engineering are a compromise. It is my view that the best compromise, between weight, performance, cost and reliability, for the majority of riders lies at about 75Kg rather than under 70 Kg. In their quest to reduce weight Gasgas have given us frames that break, kickstarts that are fragile and gearboxes that break, fuel taps that leak and now they are having to discount to get rid of over production.

Mont / Honda on the other hand are so confident of sales of their HEAVIER bikes only feel it necessary to have 3 dealers. In addition look at the resale values of HEAVY Monts compared to LIGHT GGs and Ossas.

Take a Beta swinging arm spindle nut for example. Quite a nice piece of machined lightweight alloy that is then black anodised BUT it is not even a locknut, occasionally falls off and costs about £7.50. If it were not for the quest to reduce weight a standard thin section M16 x 1.5 nyloc nut could be used, more reliable at about 50 pence.

Many of the developments that have taken place such as disc brakes and monoshock rear suspension clearly outperform their predecessors and have few drawbacks but some of the developments taking place to shave the last few grams off or squeeze a bit more power out of the engine are of dubious value, particularly when long term maintenance costs and reliability considerations are taken into account.

Only time will tell what price and how reliable the Vertigo is but for me the electronic complexity is already a turn off, but perhaps for rides who can't tune a carb EFI is a big plus (until it goes wrong)

I agree with every word of dadof2's post.

Would I rather ride a TY than a Vertigo .... of course not, the Vertigo will be much easier to ride and more fun,,,, but......I am confident that if I rode a brand new TY and a Vertigo in a trial over the same sections there would be very little difference in my scores at the end of the day.

I don't want a bike that is ultra light weight - it won't appreciate my 15 stones bearing down on it. I also don't see the need for 4 maps in every gear. Important issues to me are reliability, ease of maintenance, cost of spares, quality of components etc . So yes, Mr Yamaha, if you ever decide to reintroduce the TY this nutter will be first in the queue.

How much market research do the trial manufactures carry out? Do any of them really listen to what their customers really want?

Good luck, and a great looking bike, no doubt the upper end of the trials market will flock to buy.....but flock to by a very very niche market.

Completely agree that every step forward is indeed a step forward, and occasionally a game-changer will come (discs/monoshock ......ECU mapping ....maybe not..... ???)

All of the developments in some way filter down to the layman is great - and to have a new trials model, British influence is fantastic ! (please find a UK rider ...........)

Bring on Vertigo to the masses of trials....

BUT ........ I would say 99% of trials riders would like a brand new clubman bike ...............<£4K, reliable, easy maintenance (ride/wash/lube/2 hr maintenance/put away/spend time with family/ride..........repeat from step 2.....)

Not to hijack thread tho.........so good luck, great bike, and great development (which needs a WTC British rider !)

cheers

John

I agree with every word of dadof2's post.

Would I rather ride a TY than a Vertigo .... of course not, the Vertigo will be much easier to ride and more fun,,,, but......I am confident that if I rode a brand new TY and a Vertigo in a trial over the same sections there would be very little difference in my scores at the end of the day.

I don't want a bike that is ultra light weight - it won't appreciate my 15 stones bearing down on it. I also don't see the need for 4 maps in every gear. Important issues to me are reliability, ease of maintenance, cost of spares, quality of components etc . So yes, Mr Yamaha, if you ever decide to reintroduce the TY this nutter will be first in the queue.

How much market research do the trial manufactures carry out? Do any of them really listen to what their customers really want?

Unquestionably you are in the minority otherwise the trials countrywide would be flooded with 4rt's.

It aint.

Reliability isnt an issue on modern bikes if properly maintained and ridden in clubman sections.

To say that your scores would be the same says more about the sections and your ability than anything about the bikes, do not get the two mixed up.

I would say that a low tech,cheaper bike wouldn't sell.

In the past makers have made budget models, Montesa and Fantic ring a bell.

Can't mind much about them so I have to assume they weren't a success.

I've run a wee Scorpa 163 of and on for about 8 years .

It's unbreakable , miles better than any ty I've had.

So why aren't the trials full of them?

Our beginners club is full of 280's and 300s.

Unquestionably you are in the minority otherwise the trials countrywide would be flooded with 4rt's.

It aint.

Reliability isnt an issue on modern bikes if properly maintained and ridden in clubman sections.

To say that your scores would be the same says more about the sections and your ability than anything about the bikes, do not get the two mixed up.

So which new bike is flooding the market then?

A friendly challenge/experiment to you, if we can find someone to lend me a TY we will ride a trial - you on your gasser - and lets see if you give me a thrashing. I think not.

PS - I drove past MK ground last Saturday and noticed the digger was in there. I should come along and join the club (I don't get out on the bike much these days...)

Cheers

Its not blatantly clear what the difference is between the 2 models other than the styling. I expect the engine performance will be very nice and the best bit about it. The whole package reminds me of the Ossa - a little. "The gear box has been tested for two years" - probably in another manufacturers bike lol.

There's nothing that justifies a crazy high price other than the desire to make their riders exclusive. Bearing in mind the amount of new bikes sold most riders are exclusive anyway on what ever brand they ride .

Overall - very nice but no WOW for me , but i expect to much , as well do , given the hype

Besides the weight it appears that you can get your thong headlamp in either Black or White... Gotta be honest... I am usually Wow'ed at the sight of a thong heading in my direction...

I am thinking team WGASA should be getting some royalties here...

--Biff

PS Nice bike. Interesting that they are using CAN protocol to communicate to their module. I would have a field day there...